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  1. #26
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    So if I understand, any high kinetic energy device is a weapon? Rhetoric such as turbo's does more damage to any advocacy efforts because it creates the illusion in the public eye that bicyclists are nothing more than arm waving madmen spewing irrationality based on their own bizarre definitions such as the kinetic energy of a auto makes it a weapon. No point in answering me on this one, I will not debate irrationality.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    So if I understand, any high kinetic energy device is a weapon? Rhetoric such as turbo's does more damage to any advocacy efforts because it creates the illusion in the public eye that bicyclists are nothing more than arm waving madmen spewing irrationality based on their own bizarre definitions such as the kinetic energy of a auto makes it a weapon. No point in answering me on this one, I will not debate irrationality.
    Perhaps the term weapon is a bit harsh as well as a loaded term (yes, bad pun intended). However, considering the death and injury numbers related to motor vehicles, they are most certainly deadly kinetic energy devices. Since motorists, even those who refuse to obey any laws, consistently maintain that they have no deadly intent, maybe this is the better term. (Except in those few cases where the motor vehicle is clearly being used with intent to kill, but those cases are as rare as cyclists killing pedestrians.)

  3. #28
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    You know what is even more "bizarre irrationality". Turbo didn't come up with that definition himself. When he was a young man in high-school his drivers ed. teacher (a short fat partially bald gentleman who was old as the hills as far as us young punks were concerned) taught that from the front of the classroom and did the math on the chalkboard to prove an automobile at highway speed had more destructive and lethal kinetic energy then a bullet fired even from the largest and most powerful hunting *****s (this was a country boy school and we all knew what guns were for and how dangerous they were and to treat them with respect before we ever got to drivers ed.) and also had the statistics for us on the chalkboard showing how many people were killed and injured by *** accidents a year compared to how many were killed and injured by car accidents a year. And then he had a slide show (you know the really old school slide film tapes with the little holes punched in the sides of the slide tape) showing pictures of real people dead and all smashed up and smeared after being hit by an automobile. People cut in half with their innards smeared around and severed body parts strewn around. Pictures of buildings that had been hit by a speeding car going out of control with a gaping hole in the side that looked like they had been hit by an artillery round not a car. We were specifically told in no uncertain terms that we were "driving a bullet" and that we had better act accordingly repeatably.

    And you know what I got the message as did a lot of the other kids in the class. Not full success rate of course a lot of us kids thought the old geezer was nuts but the longer I live and the older I get and the more I see, the more I know he had more sense and was more right then the world at large will ever know.

  4. #29
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    So if I understand, any high kinetic energy device is a weapon? Rhetoric such as turbo's does more damage to any advocacy efforts because it creates the illusion in the public eye that bicyclists are nothing more than arm waving madmen spewing irrationality based on their own bizarre definitions such as the kinetic energy of a auto makes it a weapon. No point in answering me on this one, I will not debate irrationality.
    Most police departments consider cars as weapons. Police will not hesitate to shoot a motorist who is not otherwise armed when a car is even slowly rolling towards them.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  5. #30
    Lover of Old Chrome Moly Myosmith's Avatar
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    Whether or not something is a weapon has more to do with the intent of the user than the device itself. If I swing a hammer at a nail, it's a tool; if I swing it at someone's skull, it's a weapon. A vehicle can definitely be considered a weapon when it is used to threaten or attack someone.

    Back to the OP: Distracted driving is killing more people, period, not just cyclists. While no doubt it is a serious concern for cyclists, distracted driving affects everyone, cyclist or not, and it has grown to epidemic proportions.
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  6. #31
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Point is that in terms of raw power a speeding automobile is an incredibly powerful weapon if used as one and even unintentionally used as such can cause massive devastation.

    If the personal on an army base in peace time are goofing around with a 2" light field artillery cannon and it goes off and the non-exploding but high kinetic energy shell comes back down in the nearby town and smashes through the side wall of a business and blows out a huge section of the wall and kills or injures innocent people inside its not just an "Oops, Sorry, just an accident moment". There would be a huge investigation and one or more people on the army base would be in very serious trouble.

    If on the other hand a big car or light truck going 60+mph rams into the side of the building with the same results (and there is indeed potentially just as much damaging and lethal kinetic energy in that situation) because someone was messing with their phone and not paying attention and the road turned to the side and they just kept flying straight through and right into the building then it is indeed often treated as just an "Oops, Sorry, just an accident" and the insurance company will pay for the damage and "its not my fault the road turned and that building was in the way" by the arrogant belligerent punk driver.

  7. #32
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post
    distracted driving affects everyone, cyclist or not, and it has grown to epidemic proportions.
    No doubt true in regards to hysteria about "distracted driving." Especially when the definition of the buzz word is expanded to include multiple sins and assumed/presumed/suspected driving errors.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-24-13 at 11:09 PM.

  8. #33
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    A perusal of the A&S threads with its continual and repetitive postings by "advocates" of fearmongoring, "cager" bashing, and accidents, incidents and close calls from around the world indicates you have a lot of opportunities
    That and it's nearly 2014. Four year old stats are like searching for demolished buildings.
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