Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 12-02-13 at 12:13 PM.
Both chocolate cake and peanut butter should be on the menu and we should be able to freely choose between the two at our own discretion or even have both if we so desire.
Where the line is crossed is where the chocolate cake eaters try to violate the rights of the peanut butter eaters and forbid them to eat peanut butter and declare they may only eat the chocolate cake. Or when the peanut butter eaters try to violate the rights of the chocolate cake eaters and forbid them to eat chocolate cake and declare they may only eat peanut butter. Even worse when they side with terrorists willing to use terror of force and violence to enforce such an edict or themselves stoop to that level.
For example ...
Road construction crews wear it, of course, but so does just about everyone who doesn't work in an office ... any construction job, farming, working in a warehouse, mining, working in a factory, driving a truck ...
Roughly half the working population.
So, if we wear hi vis stuff as cyclists, we don't stand out as looking odd. It's quite normal.
Single point power switch (I prefer not to spend several minutes clicking and flipping switches for 10+ different lights on my bicycle)
Visibility, range, and lighting spectrum/radius
Mounting capabilities/flexibility (what are all the places on/off the bike these can be mounted, including trailers and helmets)
Reliability and life span
Water and element proof/resistant
Pros and cons
Availability, warranty, refund/replacement policy, and level of customer service??
I have a white bike with white reflectors. I have decent lights (especially the one at the back), and I sometimes wear a helmet. I don't wear hi-viz clothing, and from a quick recollection of who does around my neighbourhood, the only people who wear hi-viz has blinking, dangling useless lights.
I use constant-on lights, as it allows for others (both motorists and bicyclists) to estimate distance. Further, I can swivel my head quite easily, and often do that a few extra times when I know I'm in a blind spot. I also try to make eye contact with drivers. I agree that mirrors are a distraction, not a help. Not because I just haven't "got used to them", but unlike in a car, I can actually swivel my head and see everything. I also look for shadows and light angles. A motorcyclist still swivel their heads, even if they have mirrors. Well, good motorcyclists. However, they are usually hunched down a bit more than I am on my bicycle, and at higher speeds, there is greater force to contend with on a motorcycle.
My point is that there is nothing I can see in a mirror that I can't see be swiveling my head/torso.
I know I'm new to this forum, but that attitude the OP is talking about was quick to rear its ugly head, and I happen to agree with him.
One last thing - about those "half the work force". Yes, but I bet those same people won't be wearing hi-viz when they privately drive down to the grocery shop, do teh school-run or whatever. Hell, most of the people you mention would need to wear hi-viz (by law) if crossing a parking lot. Will the guys who make that argument be wearing hi-viz for that eventuality too? Or how about walking around the city after dark? All the people you have mentioned would need hi-viz for that in their work. So, what about you? Why aren't you wearing hi-viz for that - oh, and bring some battery lights too, as road construction workers need to?
LOL, sorry, but I actually step off the bike once in a while if traffic is becoming too "blind" (low sun, for instance) and walk on the shoulder or even farther away if need be. Or, as I have done a couple of times: Simply wait it out.
Last edited by SmallFront; 12-03-13 at 12:52 PM. Reason: clarified a bit
Me personally I've pretty much given up on the current crop of bicycle specific lights (not to say that other people who only very occasionally find themselves out on a bike after dark or in nasty weather aren't capable of having their very basic bare minimal lighting needs met by such products) except for the very highest priced and best quality ones which cost way more then I am willing to spend when I have other options.
Commercial tractor-trailer grade generic modern rugged high power LED tail lights mounted and wired up by myself to lighter weight 4-cell LiFePO4 batteries (12.8v is close enough to 12v) do the job wonderfully for my needs and the best lights for the lowest price I have found but they do require you to actually twist wires together yourself and figure out how to make your own mounts. Not to mention that cyclists who are always concerned about every last gram of weight would probably have a stroke on the spot if I told them how many grams my lights and battery packs weigh but way more light and lasts for hours and hours of riding time and its really only a few pounds extra weight, far less then what you will add to your own mid-section in tummy fat if you didn't bike.
I used a bug eye mirror on my motorcycle helmets for years. Last week I moved one over to my bicycle helmet. I was used to them so it was no big thing to get used to. What I did notice is that it is really nice to turn my head a few degrees to see everything behind me. It actually makes my ride more pleasurable as I don't have to turn around so often to look as was my habit. I am also still nursing neck and head injuries from being hit and I don't have the same range of motion that I used to. My swivel is broken...
If, by refusing, you increase joy in your life, then good. I'm not here to say you're doing anything wrong. You're doing what's right for you.
I've made my decisions about what I'll use, and I'm happy about them, too.
Yup, Liberty is the best policy. Liberty being only a few things being required and only that which is necessary to respect the rights of others and all other things which only effect you being your own choice. (As apposed to freedom which is total anarchy where absolutely nothing is mandatory even that which is necessary to respect the rights of others, liberty and freedom are two words which do not mean exactly the same thing.) Obviously there will always be debate on where exactly to draw the line with Liberty but the principle is never the less the superior one.
I don't get why blinding motorists with a bright headlight is seen as a safe practice, merely because "it gets their attention". In Germany they have strict rules for bicycle lights, and for good reason. There is nothing worse than meeting a bunch of mountainbikers (or runners, for that matter) coming out from the forest with their gigawatt headlights on, when I try to bike my daughter home. I am not the only one annoyed and blinded, all the cars in both directions are likewise blinded as each mountainbiker (or runner) looks to both sides before crossing the road.
That behaviour will get headlights banned for good, and I hope that the people who think it is perfectly fine to blind fellow road users will find it equally fine to be blinded by a car's high beams while they themselves are operating a motorvehicle. In fact, I find it to be an extremely antisocial behaviour. Headlights (as in helmet lights) have their place, but that place is not on the road.
Okay, rant over, lol.
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
But in any case, how would you point a light on a helmet low enough so that when you look up and down the road it is still low enough to not blind anyone? And, more to the point, my comment was aimed at the people using their light as a weapon against fellow road users, even if my example was using "unthinking" mountainbikers/runners.
People in cars don't run on high beams constantly, and for good reason. I don't see why people on bikes (or runners) should somehow be excempt and them doing what they do, should make it okay to blind other road users. It's not only dangerous, it is outright antisocial in my book.
I wish it were not so, but some motorists require all but being hit over the head with a large stick before they acknowledge that cyclists belong on the road.
Sure, it would be nice to treat all road users with courtesy... but it just doesn't happen.
Now that said, I would recommend NOT aiming lights at drivers or other road users unless one can determine that there is a "recognition issue."
BTW SmallFront... what is the typical training period for motorists in Germany?
People also often go "I didn't see him (in that other car" when they ram someone in an intersection. Should we have high beams on the sides of cars too?
And some cyclists need to be brow beat before they learn that they do not own the road to the detriment of other road users.I wish it were not so, but some motorists require all but being hit over the head with a large stick before they acknowledge that cyclists belong on the road.
Surely you are not suggesting what I think you are suggesting: That the solution is to blind other road users, whether you are on a bicycle or motorcycle, or in a car or 18-wheeler?Sure, it would be nice to treat all road users with courtesy... but it just doesn't happen.
What happened to being able to anticipate the traffic, and stop or slow down if you think someone in an intersection will potentially ram you? Blinding him is the solution? Really? You may have the right of way in a given situation, but that doesn't mean you should blind him if you perceive him to not make good on that.Now that said, I would recommend NOT aiming lights at drivers or other road users unless one can determine that there is a "recognition issue."
Oh, and while I'm there, if you only blind the ones you perceive to be coming close to ramming you, how do you keep from blinding other people while doing so, or even just looking while crossing a street/intersection? Do you turn the light on, go from "low" beam to "high" beam? Do you adjust the headlight? No, although it sounds plausible on the surface in a righteous sort of way, the fact is that if you have enough power to blind a motorists in a situation where speed is of the essense, you will also blind other motorists by simply looking around while riding. As a result, I can't take your explanation seriously, nor can I take as anything else than some sort of entitlement. Yes, we have to do something to be safe, but in my neck of the woods, that means being more careful and driving/riding defensively. Not acting aggresively towards other road users.
I don't know, I'm from Denmark, not Germany, and as such we don't have any rules about this blinding of bicycle lights here either, hence my comment about it being banned (both here and in the US) if people persist in such antisocial behaviour.BTW SmallFront... what is the typical training period for motorists in Germany?
Interesting response considering that your earlier comment was "In Germany they have strict rules for bicycle lights, and for good reason."
To give a summery response to your Q & A below, I suggest some practical cycling on fast multilane arterial roads in Southern California... then you can come back with your snappy quips.
And as to "What happened to being able to anticipate the traffic, and stop or slow down if you think someone in an intersection will potentially ram you?" Bit difficult to do when you are in the lane, moving with the flow of traffic, and some dunderhead tries making a left turn into you as they perceive you as a gap in traffic.
Have a nice day.
Now, let me copy/paste the above quote verbatim, and the bold is my emphasis:
Ah, yes, the usual response when someone is confronted with actual arguments but are unable to come up with some valid ones for his own claims: "You don't live where I live, therefore my behaviour is justified. And if I say that, I can safely ignore anything and everything anyone says against my behaviour".To give a summery response to your Q & A below, I suggest some practical cycling on fast multilane arterial roads in Southern California... then you can come back with your snappy quips.
Ah, yes, and blinding him is the solutionAnd as to "What happened to being able to anticipate the traffic, and stop or slow down if you think someone in an intersection will potentially ram you?" Bit difficult to do when you are in the lane, moving with the flow of traffic, and some dunderhead tries making a left turn into you as they perceive you as a gap in traffic.
I have biked in Rome and New York and backwaters in various parts of the world. It's not like I'm new to cycling in traffic. I guess since I don't attempt to blind other road users in a fit of vigilantism I am unsafe in traffic.
Yes, nothing like being called out on antisocial behaviour and then duck and run while insinuating that the person calling you out on it is dishonest.Have a nice day.