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  1. #1
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    Stupid driver tricks.

    For some reason I've been attracting the mutants behind the wheel types lately. More proof that my strobes, blinkies, bright flourescent jacket, and reflectors do little good. I still have to ride like there are homicidal drunken mutants behind the wheel of every vehicle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWYGTz4brKQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ZUFYYqTlk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtvIyYw5MQ4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP0exIthXLM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEYg7B2WvU8

  2. #2
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    For some reason I've been attracting the mutants behind the wheel types lately. More proof that my strobes, blinkies, bright flourescent jacket, and reflectors do little good. I still have to ride like there are homicidal drunken mutants behind the wheel of every vehicle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWYGTz4brKQ...
    Please don't take it as snark, because I always side with the bicycle rider if I can rationalize it. I'm biased on your side. Yet, you'll be a lot safer if you don't pass to the right of cars in the intersection. Particularly if they're signalling a right turn and fading over, but even in general just pacing the gap behind them eliminates almost all of that kind of thing.

    The later ones, like that guy trying to door you, yeah that's more like the homocidal mutant in my book.

  3. #3
    genec genec's Avatar
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    The very first video I saw... WA ALY4687 shows that you are expecting motorists to see you approach from behind and on the right, while they are indicating turning.

    Sorry, I put the responsibility in your court... you are coming up on a motorist who is obviously turning (signal is on) and you are trying to pass on the right... bad form. Merge in behind motorists in such situations and stay alive.

    Here is an excerpt of Washington State bike laws that covers this.

    RCW 46.61.770
    Riding on roadways and
    bicycle
    paths.
    (1) Every person operating a
    bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of
    the right through lane as is safe except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.


    You have no obligation to ride to the right when you are overtaking (you were), and it is unwise to pass MV on the right when approaching a place where they can turn (they were, and signaled).

    Thus you performed the most basic of Stupid Cyclist Tricks.

    Go and take a safe cycling class.

  4. #4
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    No snark taken. Here's the problem. These areas are heavily used "bike thoroughfares" and local PD has made it a point for everyone to use their lanes and avoid mixing in most cases. Unfortunately moving over into the next lane over can get me a cite even with the need for more attention to those ignoring the lane to their right. It's why I spend more time hovering over the brakes and sitting back from vehicles like this so that the lights hit their mirrors and just maybe they'll pay attention or I'll get their attention. The ones who don't use their signal and mirror....well those can be a bit tricky.

  5. #5
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    #1 - he wasn't sure if you saw his intent to turn and was being safe. Proper procedure here would have been to move in behind the car so he knows you're going straight.

    #2 - he checked, no one there, moved over to get around the left-turning cars, and moved back over when clear. I don't see a problem here.

    #3 - meh, smile and nod. We've all been there at some point.

    #4 - precisely why you shouldn't ride next to vehicles just starting up a light. He could have been turning right and not signaling. Take the lane behind him and move back over once through the intersection.

    #5 - Agree with you here; bike lanes such as those as worse than riding in the street.

  6. #6
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    No snark taken. Here's the problem. These areas are heavily used "bike thoroughfares" and local PD has made it a point for everyone to use their lanes and avoid mixing in most cases. Unfortunately moving over into the next lane over can get me a cite even with the need for more attention to those ignoring the lane to their right. It's why I spend more time hovering over the brakes and sitting back from vehicles like this so that the lights hit their mirrors and just maybe they'll pay attention or I'll get their attention. The ones who don't use their signal and mirror....well those can be a bit tricky.
    Quote the WA state law to them... and show them the vid... you may have to do so in court. Clearly what you are doing is unsafe... and any cop that promotes that is wrong.

    Law Enforcement often "makes up" what they think should be the law when it comes to cycling... in this case is it very much safer to merge to the lane of thru traffic than to remain to the right of turning traffic.

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    Unfortunately there a catch 22. Local PD expects drivers to look and signal before turning when there is another lane (bike lanes included) and/or crosswalk and only procede when it's clear. They have also made it very clear that unless there is a hazard in the lane of travel, bikes stay in the bike lanes. Vehicles crossing w/o looking even though they signal, are not regarded as a hazard to the bike lane. Pretty silly.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Buzzatronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    For some reason I've been attracting the mutants behind the wheel types lately. More proof that my strobes, blinkies, bright flourescent jacket, and reflectors do little good. I still have to ride like there are homicidal drunken mutants behind the wheel of every vehicle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWYGTz4brKQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ZUFYYqTlk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtvIyYw5MQ4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP0exIthXLM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEYg7B2WvU8
    For #2 the guy is breaking the law in Seattle (and Washington). Drivers can only drive in the bike lane when executing a turn. This guy wasn't turning.

    For #4 , I know it's hard not to but confronting someone like that is not the best idea. I do it sometimes myself as my emotions almost get the best of me, but at a slow speed encounter like that, you should be able to just let it go and be on your way.

    For #5 that bike lane sucks, I would not ride anywhere near it.

  9. #9
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Even if you don't want to move over into the lane behind them, you can stay in your bike lane in the same position. The only reason to "take the lane" there is to make it harder for the one behind you to zoom past and right hook. It's a good reason, but even not taking the lane stakes out a position and drivers tend to automatically respect the space. Movement with different speeds in the lanes segregates them. Synchronizing the speed trailing the car, even in the bike lane, makes it all one traffic flow.

    I'll sometimes even swoop past a line of cars waiting at the light, pick a gap and stay there through the intersection, but still in my area on the right. It always works. On the flip side, I try to never be directly to the right of any vehicle when starting through the intersection. It doesn't actually cost much if any time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I try to never be directly to the right of any vehicle when starting through the intersection. It doesn't actually cost much if any time.
    Exactly.

  11. #11
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    Unfortunately there a catch 22. Local PD expects drivers to look and signal before turning when there is another lane (bike lanes included) and/or crosswalk and only procede when it's clear. They have also made it very clear that unless there is a hazard in the lane of travel, bikes stay in the bike lanes. Vehicles crossing w/o looking even though they signal, are not regarded as a hazard to the bike lane. Pretty silly.
    There is no catch 22. Local PD is wrong and is advising unsafe practices. Do the safe thing and if they confront or ticket you, accept the ticket; then take the ticket, your video and the law cited above (RCW 46.61.770) to court and show them what is wrong. Expect the judge to listen to the cop... ask for interpretation of "except as may be appropriate while preparing to make or while making turning movements, or while overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction."

    Don't follow poor cop advise when it is unsafe to do so.

  12. #12
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    Speaking to the first video only (didn't bother with the others).

    If this were a case of two cars in two lanes, the car passing on the right while the one on the left was clearly signalling a lane change or turn would be min the wrong.

    I don't know if local law prevents the motorist from moving over in advance of the turn or not, but the OP had plenty of warning and at the very least should not have expected to be able to pass on the right. No adjustment of lane position is needed, just an adjustment of speed and distance.

    Also understand that even if cars or trucks are legally allowed to move to the right before a turn, they cannot as a practical matter do so enough to block a cyclist. Rear wheels turn a smaller arc, so vehicles have to start their turns away from the right curb to avoid chopping the corner. This is one reason so many cyclists, and even motorists get right hooked by long trucks. These may need a full lane empty to their right to negotiate a tight corner, and spme people simply cannot resist the chance to slide up on the right.
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  13. #13
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    Here's the problem. These areas are heavily used "bike thoroughfares" and local PD has made it a point for everyone to use their lanes and avoid mixing in most cases. Unfortunately moving over into the next lane over can get me a cite even with the need for more attention to those ignoring the lane to their right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    Unfortunately there a catch 22. Local PD expects drivers to look and signal before turning when there is another lane (bike lanes included) and/or crosswalk and only procede when it's clear. They have also made it very clear that unless there is a hazard in the lane of travel, bikes stay in the bike lanes. Vehicles crossing w/o looking even though they signal, are not regarded as a hazard to the bike lane. Pretty silly.
    By what method is the local PD conveying these clear messages and points to you?

  14. #14
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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  15. #15
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    Citations to bicyclists, getting pulled over, lectures while stopped at lights. The silliness is that there is the law, the infrastructure, and everyone's personal view/opinion/excuse. Neither agree with each other and none are consistent or easily understood by the average road user. I ride in a manner that keeps me upright and yes I go after some that need to wake up and pay attention. Using your signal blindly in no excuse. It does not give right of way or replace looking before a turn. Using the attitude of "well I would or wouldn't do this..." accomplishes nothing. The problem lies in the entire structure itself. With regards to FYinNY "If this were a case of two cars in two lanes, the car passing on the right while the one on the left was clearly signalling a lane change or turn would be min the wrong. " Absolutely ridiculous. That would be the same as driving in the left lane and turning into the right w/o looking but gosh darn it you had your signal on so you had the right. Really?

  16. #16
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    Citations to bicyclists, getting pulled over, lectures while stopped at lights. The silliness is that there is the law, the infrastructure, and everyone's personal view/opinion/excuse. Neither agree with each other and none are consistent or easily understood by the average road user. I ride in a manner that keeps me upright and yes I go after some that need to wake up and pay attention. Using your signal blindly in no excuse. It does not give right of way or replace looking before a turn. Using the attitude of "well I would or wouldn't do this..." accomplishes nothing. The problem lies in the entire structure itself. With regards to FYinNY "If this were a case of two cars in two lanes, the car passing on the right while the one on the left was clearly signalling a lane change or turn would be min the wrong. " Absolutely ridiculous. That would be the same as driving in the left lane and turning into the right w/o looking but gosh darn it you had your signal on so you had the right. Really?
    Looks to me like you are intentionally setting yourself up for conflict so as to get some action to share. In the few right hook vids I looked at you had plenty of opportunity to not put yourself in hook position, but you rode into it knowing it would likely happen.

  17. #17
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    E
    I'll sometimes even swoop past a line of cars waiting at the light, pick a gap and stay there through the intersection, but still in my area on the right. It always works. On the flip side, I try to never be directly to the right of any vehicle when starting through the intersection. It doesn't actually cost much if any time.
    here is an example (sort of) of that.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    I am reminded that often when translating cycling sites originally in French it comes out as 'Driver'.

    Just pointing out that the title might still work for a Frenchman.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  19. #19
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multcomedic View Post
    For some reason I've been attracting the mutants behind the wheel types lately. More proof that my strobes, blinkies, bright flourescent jacket, and reflectors do little good. I still have to ride like there are homicidal drunken mutants behind the wheel of every vehicle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWYGTz4brKQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ZUFYYqTlk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtvIyYw5MQ4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP0exIthXLM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEYg7B2WvU8
    Video #1 : I would have insisted the car make their right turn.

    Video #2 : I would have just 'taken the lane', in the regular travel lane.

    Video #3 : Are you riding on the sidewalk?

    Video #4 : I didn't see a 'bike lane'. But, I do agree, it was rude of him to decide to 'hug the curb', with his pickup truck.

    Video #5 : I agree 100%.

  20. #20
    genec genec's Avatar
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    As to number 5... stupid bike lane. No other traffic... I'd avoid that BL as it is designed to hurt you.

  21. #21
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    All appear to be common and relatively minor events. avoidable by alert and aware bicycling. Did you get a new video camera you wanted to try out?
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
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  22. #22
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    here is an example (sort of) of that.
    pretty much exactly that, except that the cyclist pulled in behind in the gap. Either way.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post

    Video #3 : Are you riding on the sidewalk?
    Nope. It's a separate path to a crossing and then to a second crossing. It then leads to a sidewalk which then crosses to another separate path. It's a mess and I now hit this intersection from a different direction and use the car turn lane. The other end of this when returning from the opposite direction is worse. Separate bike path that has a sharp left turn onto a marked and lit crossing with traffic exiting the freeway parallel to the path coming from behind. All of this on a sweeping arch so you have to watch for exiting traffic over your right shoulder before making the left sharp turn. It's a great design. I'm not sure if the link will work but the video location and the sharp turn crossing are labeled. https://mapsengine.google.com/map/ed...0.kTYDNVhsJXO0

  24. #24
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    pretty much exactly that, except that the cyclist pulled in behind in the gap. Either way.
    they have to otherwise the gap gets filled by the vehicle behind and then they are adjacent and may turn right.

  25. #25
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    they have to otherwise the gap gets filled by the vehicle behind and then they are adjacent and may turn right.
    I agree it's better, but I've never had one accelerate around the gap to right hook doing that, as long as I'm the same speed as the vehicle in front. I think it's a trick in perception. They normally don't even pull up beside during the intersection (tho some will).

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