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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    ...

    I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a protocol in place for this sort of thing that mandates having a different agency handle an investigation when an officer is involved in a death, particularly when the initial evidence indicates the officer is at fault. The lack of such a protocol causes me concern. Well-run departments don't fear outside scrutiny, but corrupt ones do.
    I agree. Internal investigations will always be tainted, even in the most professional, honest police department. Unless the department has a separate unit for internal investigations, or even then, it would pay to invite oversight from an outside agency just to eliminate accusations of cronyism.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atbman View Post
    What is bizarre about the VC Star story is that at 8.22 they headlined the story "Cyclist fatally struck by sheriff's car ID'd", but at 9.19 the cyclist died after hitting hitting patrol vehicle.

    Curious inversion, eh?
    The VC Star is my local paper. I wouldn't use it to line my parrot's cage--it is that bad.

    The VC Star is very anti-police, they'd do nothing to help out the cops. Additionally, the Star is in Ventura County and the accident occurred in Los Angeles County, the Star doesn't have a dog in this fight.

    No conspiracy here, just their usual bad reporting.
    My current stable:

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  3. #53
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaco View Post
    It appears they have an excellent media ally with the Ventura County Star.

    The Star hates cops. Also the Star is in a different county.

    No allies, just their usual shoddy reporting.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Decades ago I was out for an evening ride (mid summer) after traffic going the 2 miles home was horrible. I ate dinner and then started my ride. Traffic was still heavy, but livable, until the road went from 1 lane to 2 and it was like being caught in a LeMans start.

    I bailed. I learned the next day that there was a fatality accident on the Ventura Freeway involving a CHP officer. They closed the whole freeway during rush hour.

    If the CHP has any jurisdiction they will investigate.
    The CHP does not have jurisdiction. They may, however, be brought in to do the investigation to avoid any semblance of cover-up or conflict of interest.
    My current stable:

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  5. #55
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I wasn't there, and I haven't been in LA since 1983, but it looks to me like something is seriously wrong with that Sheriff's Department.
    Understatement of the Thread:

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#axzz2n2LQ0D54

    http://graphics.latimes.com/behind-the-badge/
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  6. #56
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    Transparency isn't a priority for the LA County sheriffs.



  7. #57
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    Reading the comments on the CBS video link this appears to have happened on the 22500 block of Mulholland Highway (not the 22000 block that the reporter stated.) If you look at Google street view there's a right hand traffic lane that ends just prior to where the collision took place. The cop most likely was moving over to the left and went through the bike lane and struck the rider.





    Last edited by Dunbar; 12-09-13 at 09:31 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    The Star hates cops. Also the Star is in a different county.

    No allies, just their usual shoddy reporting.
    Sounds like there might be a good reason to hate those cops

  9. #59
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I agree. Internal investigations will always be tainted, even in the most professional, honest police department. Unless the department has a separate unit for internal investigations, or even then, it would pay to invite oversight from an outside agency just to eliminate accusations of cronyism.
    In the LA sheriff's, the lieutenants in charge of such units are often just as corrupt.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/09...investigation/
    Among those charged with conspiracy and obstruction of justice in the 18-page indictment are two lieutenants, one of whom oversaw the department's safe jails program and another who investigated allegations of local crimes committed by sheriff's personnel, two sergeants and three deputies.
    CHP would have likely done a reasonable investigation, but as noted - too late now.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I agree. Internal investigations will always be tainted, even in the most professional, honest police department. Unless the department has a separate unit for internal investigations, or even then, it would pay to invite oversight from an outside agency just to eliminate accusations of cronyism.
    These things are always backed up with community watchdog groups and everything else. For God's sake... how suspicious and paranoid can people be before it is a clinical-health problem instead of an "cycling advocacy issue".

    Most policemen who are killed [or seriously injured on the job] are in car accidents. Policemen, cyclists, small children, and grandmothers.... car accidents are big on the "cause of death lists" for all groups. All people should take all deaths as personal.... not just cyclists relating to cyclists. After all... the one thing all humans have in common is our mortality. No one.... gets out of here alive. Taking precautions and assigning blame will never eliminate death.

    My heart goes out to the family and friends of the cyclist... and also to the police officers family and friends.

    My wife and family know I am fully aware at how fatally serious cycling accidents with automobiles can be. And they know I chose to bicycle in traffic anyway. I have to assume the same can be said of a mature adult professional such as the person involved in this accident. To fully live and enjoy our lives... we have to take our chances. There is no joy in the safety of the sofa.

    I am sure there are better ways to end the journey through life.... than suddenly, quickly while enjoying one last bicycle ride. But presently... I can't think of any.

  11. #61
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howeeee View Post
    Sounds like there might be a good reason to hate those cops
    I would not support such a broad statement.

    I have worked with LEO for mostnof my professional life.

    The overwhelming majority are good, hard working intelligent men and women. They chose LE out of a genuine desire to help people, not hurt them.

    While I support a full investigation of the facts surrounding this accident, along with proper punishment, the anti-police vitriol expressed by many here is completely unjustified. How about waiting until all the facts have come out?

    The Star's position is cases involving LE is based more on their own ideology than on any factual scenarios. Their anti-LE knee jerk reaction is well-known in Ventura County.
    Last edited by eja_ bottecchia; 12-09-13 at 10:43 PM.
    My current stable:

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  12. #62
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post

    I am sure there are better ways to end the journey through life.... than suddenly, quickly while enjoying one last bicycle ride. But presently... I can't think of any.
    Well written.
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
    1999 Cannondale F400 mountain bike
    2012 Bianchi Infinito (Campy Record 11s)
    2012 Colnago C59 in PR99 color scheme (Campy Record 11s)

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post

    While I support a full investigation of the facts surrounding this accident, along with proper punishment, the anti-police vitriol expressed by many here is completely unjustified. How about waiting until all the facts have come out?
    The problem is no one can be trusted to investigate themselves. The facts are highly unlikely to come out due to the accused entity investigating itself.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    I would not support such a broad statement.

    I have worked with LEO for mostnof my professional life.

    The overwhelming majority are good, hard working intelligent men and women. They chose LE out of a genuine desire to help people, not hurt them.

    While I support a full investigation of the facts surrounding this accident, along with proper punishment, the anti-police vitriol expressed by many here is completely unjustified. How about waiting until all the facts have come out?

    The Star's position is cases involving LE is based more on their own ideology than on any factual scenarios. Their anti-LE knee jerk reaction is well-known in Ventura County.
    Read back through the thread. There isn't so much anti-police sentiments expressed as distrust of the L.A. Sheriff's department, and that distrust has been justified by the links provided.

  15. #65
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Don't you dare come in and ask for a form to file a complaint at the LA Sheriff's Department.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBFa_FdFvk

    Chilling:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u5YvQjx6qs
    Last edited by CB HI; 12-09-13 at 11:40 PM.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  16. #66
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Bottom line is you are asking for hard evidence for situation that people are bending over backwards to hide.
    Nope, you have your logic cap on backwards today. The poster claimed unequivocally "It is a well documented FACT that police edit, lose, delete, and other wise misplace video and audio from their patrol cars, motorcycles and body worn recorders." It is up to him or anyone else who makes an unsubstantiated claim of a slanderous "well documented FACT" to support it.

  17. #67
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikon Rep View Post
    The problem is no one can be trusted to investigate themselves. The facts are highly unlikely to come out due to the accused entity investigating itself.
    Who needs an investigation at all when the A&S jury has already reached a guilty verdict?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Nope, you have your logic cap on backwards today. The poster claimed unequivocally "It is a well documented FACT that police edit, lose, delete, and other wise misplace video and audio from their patrol cars, motorcycles and body worn recorders." It is up to him or anyone else who makes an unsubstantiated claim of a slanderous "well documented FACT" to support it.
    I could spend a lot of time posting links but I think there is a better way to expose you to the issue.

    Find out if any law enforcement agencies near you have dashcam or body worn recorders. If one does then pick a date and time and file a public records request for the footage.

    Come back on here and let us know how it went.

  19. #69
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
    Reading the comments on the CBS video link this appears to have happened on the 22500 block of Mulholland Highway (not the 22000 block that the reporter stated.) If you look at Google street view there's a right hand traffic lane that ends just prior to where the collision took place. The cop most likely was moving over to the left and went through the bike lane and struck the rider.

    Going by this particular picture. The officer was going too fast for the road condition(rise in road possibly obscuring the view at the crest of the road).

  20. #70
    Senior Member Astrozombie's Avatar
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    And moving left....probably hugging the right line
    Assume nothing; Question everything

  21. #71
    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    The overwhelming majority are good, hard working intelligent men and women. They chose LE out of a genuine desire to help people, not hurt them.
    Not according to cops themselves. The long and growing list of books, blogs, and youtube channels of former cops talking about the perverseness and prevalence of the Blue Code and of the growing power of gangs within agencies is quite scary. Even Tony Bouza, feted at numerous LE functions nationwide as a cops cop, came out with a book about the pervasiveness of police corruption and the problems it's causing.

    As Bouza put it, about 30% of cops are meat-eaters, the instigators and leaders of corruption. About 50% are grass-eaters, not leaders of corruption, but happy with the spoils and cheerfully go along. Nearly all of the rest, 19.99%, are the deaf and dumb, not participating, but keeping their mouths shut, getting along. And less than a hundredth of one percent stand up to the corruption and try to do something about it, and often fail because they're completely alone in their attempt to make things right.

    Edit: Let me add this. I think that some percentage do join with the right motives of wanting to help people and be good cops, but they discover reality quite quickly. They start off being deaf & dumb, then maybe move to being a grass-eater or meat-eater. This is perhaps not unlike doping in sports.
    Last edited by CrankyOne; 12-10-13 at 09:03 AM.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    Not according to cops themselves. The long and growing list of books, blogs, and youtube channels of former cops talking about the perverseness and prevalence of the Blue Code and of the growing power of gangs within agencies is quite scary. Even Tony Bouza, feted at numerous LE functions nationwide as a cops cop, came out with a book about the pervasiveness of police corruption and the problems it's causing.

    As Bouza put it, about 30% of cops are meat-eaters, the instigators and leaders of corruption. About 50% are grass-eaters, not leaders of corruption, but happy with the spoils and cheerfully go along. Nearly all of the rest, 29.99%, are the deaf and dumb, not participating, but keeping their mouths shut, getting along. And less than a hundredth of one percent stand up to the corruption and try to do something about it, and often fail because they're completely alone in their attempt to make things right.
    50+30+29.99=109.99%
    But your point is good-overstated I think/hope
    Those numbers might be right for an EXTREMELY CORRUPT DEPT- maybe NOLA in the 1990's and before.
    Kinda doubt 30% of any DEPT are corrupt now-sure hope not!

    There is nothing new in respect to police corruption-probably no where near as bad now as it once was.

  23. #73
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    Internal investigation???? The fox in the hen house will alway claim the chicken committed suicide.

  24. #74
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    A modern day "Magnum Force".

    I love the sheriff's comment on the telling that any deputy that is being bullied, needs to "man up"..... sounds like the trouble with this LEO branch goes all the way to the top. One of our local LEOs did just that, and the department officials and fellow officers found ways to ostracize the LEO from the force.

  25. #75
    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
    Those numbers might be right for an EXTREMELY CORRUPT DEPT- maybe NOLA in the 1990's and before. Kinda doubt 30% of any DEPT are corrupt now-sure hope not!
    Bouza was chief of Minneapolis PD, generally considered to be very below average corruption. Given all of the continued and recent revelations of police corruption (and abuse), I don't think anything has changed.

    Thanks for the correction BTW.

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