Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-18-14, 10:40 AM   #126
Mvcrash 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northern NJ
Bikes: Trek 4900, Cannondale Cx-4
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
I'm not excusing anything, just pointing out that poor traffic design was probably a huge factor. I hope the bike advocacy groups in the area didn't advocate for such a sub-standard bike lane.
Roadway/highway design and signage has more of an effect on drivers than one would think, even Cops. Cops are REQUIRED to pay attention to many things while driving, civilians ar NOT and should not. You don't need a radio, cops do. You can always look straight ahead and concentrate on the roadway, Cops can't. Two different worlds driving a uniform police car and civilian car. By law, civilians are supposed to pay attention to NOTHING but their driving, by law cops have to pay attention to EVERYTHING plus their driving.

Cop was starting off from a traffic light one afternoon behind another car. Both windows open, light turns green, she starts, Cop starts, someone yells HEY OFFICER, Cop turns his head, she stopped, Cop rear ended her. Cops fault? Absolutely, three days off ? Absolutely. Intentional? NO.
A Crime? No.
I am NOT defending the cop, just providing another view and something to think about.

God speed to the family of the victim.
__________________
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former."
― Albert Einstein
Mvcrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 10:57 AM   #127
Mvcrash 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northern NJ
Bikes: Trek 4900, Cannondale Cx-4
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianFly View Post
I can.. being suffocated to death by a naked 18 year old woman sitting on my face.

I want to hang out with you.
__________________
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former."
― Albert Einstein
Mvcrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 11:11 AM   #128
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvcrash View Post
Roadway/highway design and signage has more of an effect on drivers than one would think......


.......I am NOT defending the cop, just providing another view and something to think about.

I've noted that the bike lane/road design was one factor in this collision, and one can only hope that eventually the local DOT will take measures in improving the design in making it more safer for cyclists.

It's frustrating in seeing the ways that law enforcement are exempt from doing certain practices that they will in turn cite the civilian population for doing, along with the poor track record of this particular agency's self investigation efforts.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 11:24 AM   #129
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
genec

And it would probably take the undertaker a week to get the smile off your face for the funeral.
rydabent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 12:37 PM   #130
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianFly View Post
I can.. being suffocated to death by a naked 18 year old woman sitting on my face.
Not a chance, especially with someone younger than my granddaughter, or the thought of meeting her parents who maybe younger than my children.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 01:54 PM   #131
Booger1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gaseous Cloud around Uranus
Bikes:
Posts: 3,688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
They (the local news) have reported that the cop had made 6 cell phone calls,in something like 10 minutes,prior to hitting the cyclist.....I guessing he was making a 7th.

I don't know if anyone here has dealt with LASD.....I have,many times.....They don't enforce the law...THEY ARE THE LAW!

Last edited by Booger1; 07-18-14 at 02:01 PM.
Booger1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 05:05 PM   #132
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
They (the local news) have reported that the cop had made 6 cell phone calls,in something like 10 minutes,prior to hitting the cyclist.....I guessing he was making a 7th.

I don't know if anyone here has dealt with LASD.....I have,many times.....They don't enforce the law...THEY ARE THE LAW!
Not a surprise. Given something bad happened in this area. That is an easy section of road. Housing developments on both sides and only a couple of entrances per mile. The very kind of place where one might thing nothing could happen.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-14, 07:29 PM   #133
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Bikes:
Posts: 3,309
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Please stick with the relevant details and leave the fantasy jailbait homicide tangent out of this/
__________________
My disaffection is severely affected.
Rollfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-14, 03:08 AM   #134
Mvcrash 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Northern NJ
Bikes: Trek 4900, Cannondale Cx-4
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
They (the local news) have reported that the cop had made 6 cell phone calls,in something like 10 minutes,prior to hitting the cyclist.....I guessing he was making a 7th.

I don't know if anyone here has dealt with LASD.....I have,many times.....They don't enforce the law...THEY ARE THE LAW!
Do we know if the car was moving while he was on the phone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Please stick with the relevant details and leave the fantasy jailbait homicide tangent out of this/
I think it was meant as a joke. Besides, it would be an accidental death, not homicide. (just in case, this is meant as a joke)
__________________
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the former."
― Albert Einstein
Mvcrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 04:13 PM   #135
dougmc
Senior Member
 
dougmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: Giant OCR2, Bridgestone RB-T, Bike-E, Vision R-40, Novara Safari
Posts: 3,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
I assume there is video from the police cruiser. Assuming it isn't "lost somehow."
To be fair, police dashcam video seems to usually be off unless they have a reason to turn it on. I believe it's usually turned on manually if needed, or comes on automatically if the sirens are enabled.

Now, compare to those of us who run video cameras on our bikes or cars ... we know that bad things happen in an instant, and if they happen and the camera wasn't recording then the camera was worthless. So we record all the time.

You would think that the police would record all the time for the same reason, but I think their reasons are a bit different. They don't need protection for the 'he said, she said" situation in traffic collisions, because their "he said" already trumps most other people's. And if their camera does record a crime, they're obligated to preserve it as evidence where ordinary citizens may not be, so leaving it on may lead to additional work on their part.

That said, I do wish they'd start recording all the time. Perhaps record it into a secondary buffer that can be erased as needed to make space for new recordings like the dashcams of ordinary citizens, and record into the primary buffer for things they know they'll have to save. But this "the camera wasn't on" stuff has to stop -- the camera is already there, make sure it's on.
dougmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 08:20 PM   #136
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
I know that our local law enforcement has license plate reading cameras running all the time, one would think that law enforcement could have a several hour loop camera going regularly as well.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-14, 08:37 PM   #137
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 1,984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
A number of jurisdictions stopped rolling dashboard cams on a routine basis as it ended up that the tapes too often implicated officers in unprofessional if not illegal conduct.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 07:25 AM   #138
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,640
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
jon

That is why the city fathers should pass ordnances that police cams shoud be on all the time. Officers should NOT have access to the recordings.
rydabent is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 08:21 AM   #139
kickstart 
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Posts: 4,711
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
A number of jurisdictions stopped rolling dashboard cams on a routine basis as it ended up that the tapes too often implicated officers in unprofessional if not illegal conduct.
Do you have a legitimate source to support that claim?
kickstart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 09:59 AM   #140
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
jon

That is why the city fathers should pass ordnances that police cams shoud be on all the time. Officers should NOT have access to the recordings.
For a guy who claims to dislike government interference you seem to be all for passing more laws. Seems hotly illogical.
howsteepisit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 10:07 AM   #141
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
I've noted that the bike lane/road design was one factor in this collision, and one can only hope that eventually the local DOT will take measures in improving the design in making it more safer for cyclists.

It's frustrating in seeing the ways that law enforcement are exempt from doing certain practices that they will in turn cite the civilian population for doing, along with the poor track record of this particular agency's self investigation efforts.
Rubbish.

This is a wide open area, an easy drive with minimal distractions. The road is NOT the problem.

Unless one blames road design that has too much space so drivers feel safe and get careless.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 12:32 PM   #142
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
Rubbish.

This is a wide open area, an easy drive with minimal distractions. The road is NOT the problem.

Unless one blames road design that has too much space so drivers feel safe and get careless.
+1
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 02:12 PM   #143
dougmc
Senior Member
 
dougmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: Giant OCR2, Bridgestone RB-T, Bike-E, Vision R-40, Novara Safari
Posts: 3,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
For a guy who claims to dislike government interference you seem to be all for passing more laws. Seems hotly illogical.
It's not quite so illogicial.

Remember, the police are part of the government, and if the way you get them to behave is to pass laws to make them more accountable, then that certainly does have the potential to reduce government interfence on ordinary citizens. What's illogical is thinking that passing new laws absolutely cannot be a way to reduce government interference.

That said, this sort of thing should not really require an ordiance. It should be a department policy instead.

Having their cameras on has been shown to reduce citizen abuse complaints by something like 90% -- almost everybody behaves better when their actions are recorded -- so the police ought to be on board. There's some technical and policy issues to resolve, but they shouldn't be showstoppers.
dougmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 04:29 PM   #144
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 3,638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Doug,

My comment was specifically directed to rydabent who goes on about obtrusive g'vment bureaucrats (which in his mind includes elected officials) while proclaiming his cold logic. Had nothing to do with the desirability of any requirements for dash cams.
howsteepisit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 08:23 PM   #145
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
Rubbish.

This is a wide open area, an easy drive with minimal distractions. The road is NOT the problem.

Unless one blames road design that has too much space so drivers feel safe and get careless.
The dogleg in the road is a bad design, making cyclists vulnerable to motorists not making the correction due to whatever reason you happen to choose, especially during the times when the higher speed limit is in effect.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 11:57 AM   #146
bikebuddha 
Senior Member
 
bikebuddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere in time
Bikes:
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
As to the "electronics distracted cop" angle (which at this time is the only thing I wish to comment on in this thread).

A potential at least partial solution to that problem would be HUD built into cop cars so that the cop can look at necessary information for his/her job while still keeping eyes on the road. Works for fighter jet pilots, could work for cops as well. Both are under a high expectation to successfully pilot their vehicles while also absorbing highly necessary information in order to do their jobs.

There can be no doubt that the amount of electronics in modern police vehicles is a distraction. I've seen numerous LEOs using their laptops as they drive, laptops! Help explains how things like this (warning disturbing video) happens.
__________________
The few, the proud, the likely insane, Metro-Atlanta bicycle commuters.
bikebuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 03:34 PM   #147
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
The dogleg in the road is a bad design, making cyclists vulnerable to motorists not making the correction due to whatever reason you happen to choose, especially during the times when the higher speed limit is in effect.
You have to be deaf, dumb and blind to have trouble on that road.

The basic route is determined by the terrain, there is no viable options for the route it takes.

I've both driven and biked that road, it is safe.

Well at least except for when the Local High School is either getting it or letting out.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 03:59 PM   #148
klmmicro
Senior Member
 
klmmicro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Diego
Bikes: 2007 GT Avalanche 2.0, 2011 Felt Z85
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Could care less about the deputies feelings. Sorry for the cyclist's family's loss. We will likely never learn anything if the LEO is even remotely at fault. They protect their own and the rest of us are just here for so they can justify their existence. I know it sounds harsh, but crap like this happens all too often and in the end it always seems to be "the other guys fault". The only way to ensure that we get a fair shake is to have several cameras running that are uploading our own video to a remote location that cannot be tampered with. That is still a few years off yet, but it is the only way it seems to hold public employees to the accountability that we are held to.
klmmicro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 07:12 AM   #149
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
You have to be deaf, dumb and blind to have trouble on that road.
You just basically described a distracted driver........

On a section of my commute, I contend with a road design that has an even sharper dogleg in it, but with the speed limit being lower. I coordinate my riding to coincide with any break in traffic, since some motorists have failed to fully correct for the dogleg, and partially enter the bike lane before realizing it.

Added: The reason why I now have to contend with this particular dogleg, it was that in order to make room for the addition of a new bike lane, the roadway was widened on the left side since there were no power poles to move, now all traffic has to make an abrupt left correction.

Last edited by dynodonn; 07-24-14 at 08:07 AM.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-14, 12:26 AM   #150
GeorgeWerr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mvcrash View Post
Roadway/highway design and signage has more of an effect on drivers than one would think, even Cops. Cops are REQUIRED to pay attention to many things while driving, civilians ar NOT and should not. You don't need a radio, cops do. You can always look straight ahead and concentrate on the roadway, Cops can't. Two different worlds driving a uniform police car and civilian car. By law, civilians are supposed to pay attention to NOTHING but their driving, by law cops have to pay attention to EVERYTHING plus their driving.

Cop was starting off from a traffic light one afternoon behind another car. Both windows open, light turns green, she starts, Cop starts, someone yells HEY OFFICER, Cop turns his head, she stopped, Cop rear ended her. Cops fault? Absolutely, three days off ? Absolutely. Intentional? NO.
A Crime? No.
I am NOT defending the cop, just providing another view and something to think about.

God speed to the family of the victim.
So the cop keeps driving when someone is yelling for them?
GeorgeWerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:57 PM.