Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Senior Member squirtdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
    My Bikes
    '89 Miyata 1400, '82 nishiski (current utilty/commuter project)
    Posts
    3,355
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Does anyone have numbers on how roads are financed?

    Hi,

    I am looking if any one has number on how roads are financed, we all know is is not just gas and registration and varies by federal, state, county and city.

    Number for california would be great

    I will continue my on line search

    thanks
    '82 Nishiski commuter/utility
    '83 Torpado Super Strada ... cafe commuter
    '89 Miyata 1400
    Soma rush Fixie
    '78 Univega gran turismo (son's Fixie/SS)
    06 Haro x3 (son's bmx)
    Electra cruiser (wife's bike)

    looking for: De Rosa 58cm ELOS frame and fork internal cable routing

  2. #2
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,053
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It varies state by state a bit, and the numbers for CA are very hard to find as everything actually goes into a big pool and then monies are allocated from that, in spite of the fact that there were laws many years ago to earmark funds for various reasons.

    Someone had a thread a few weeks ago with a big graphic on it...

    Here is something from Portland... http://bikeportland.org/2013/11/12/d...-why-not-96950

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,557
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Genec is right. Money is fungible so you can't base it on allocated or so-called trust funds.

    Look to the aggregates, ie. total spent on road maintenance and construction. Then look at the specific revenues from the specific taxes, ie. gas tax, registration (barely pays for operating the DMV in NYS). Add that up, subtract from spending, and the rest is from general revenues.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  4. #4
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,484
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Is there a CA state advocacy group who might have those figures at their fingertips...?
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Road costs include more than repair and maintenance and the original building of the road. The California Highway Patrol, for example, wouldn't exist if there were no highways - so their budget should be considered as part of the roads' costs. Much of the Fire Departments' budgets also goes toward responding to crashes so at least part of that should be included as well. I'm all for public roads being built and maintained with public money - everyone benefits from roads after all. Even people who never leave home have things delivered. But public roads, like other public accommodations, belong to the public - and each member of the public has the same right to use public accommodations. The amount people pay in taxes is not relevant to exercise of this right.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,557
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by johnin View Post
    ......Even people who never leave home have things delivered. But public roads, like other public accommodations, belong to the public - and each member of the public has the same right to use public accommodations. The amount people pay in taxes is not relevant to exercise of this right.
    +1, I agree 100%. Possibly the OP is looking for evidence to support the fact that the bulk of road related expenses come from general revenues, so as to defuse the meaningless "bicycles don't for the roads" argument.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  7. #7
    Senior Member squirtdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
    My Bikes
    '89 Miyata 1400, '82 nishiski (current utilty/commuter project)
    Posts
    3,355
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by johnin View Post
    Road costs include more than repair and maintenance and the original building of the road. The California Highway Patrol, for example, wouldn't exist if there were no highways - so their budget should be considered as part of the roads' costs. Much of the Fire Departments' budgets also goes toward responding to crashes so at least part of that should be included as well. I'm all for public roads being built and maintained with public money - everyone benefits from roads after all. Even people who never leave home have things delivered. But public roads, like other public accommodations, belong to the public - and each member of the public has the same right to use public accommodations. The amount people pay in taxes is not relevant to exercise of this right.
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    +1, I agree 100%. Possibly the OP is looking for evidence to support the fact that the bulk of road related expenses come from general revenues, so as to defuse the meaningless "bicycles don't for the roads" argument.
    OP here....there is a current discussion in a local newspaper column about how to fund road repairs. Lots of discussion about paying per mile of usage and increased dmv fees, which to my mind miss a big point..... lot's of funding is not from vehicle specific sources (gas tax, dmv fees, options paying per miles used)

    I was surprised not to be able to find anything in even a sort of generic detail with a fair number of searches.

    I was also wanting to head off the "bike don't pay taxes, so they don't belong" crowd.
    '82 Nishiski commuter/utility
    '83 Torpado Super Strada ... cafe commuter
    '89 Miyata 1400
    Soma rush Fixie
    '78 Univega gran turismo (son's Fixie/SS)
    06 Haro x3 (son's bmx)
    Electra cruiser (wife's bike)

    looking for: De Rosa 58cm ELOS frame and fork internal cable routing

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,557
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
    OP here....there is a current discussion in a local newspaper column about how to fund road repairs.
    .
    IMO trust funds or schemes that link revenue and spending are simply a political scam. I'm not arguing for or against various "use" taxes if that makes sense, just the linkage.

    Money is fungible, so the so-called earmarked monies simply replace monies from other funds. Think about how much money the treasury is holding in the Social Security or highway trust funds. In New York the lottery was proposed and passed as funding for education. Is there any additional funding? Of course not, just less coming from the general fund.

    Taxation is about allocating the cost of government fairly. Spending is about providing necessary government services. Like East and West, never the twain shall meet.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In illinois highways are only paid for by gas taxes and vehicle registrations. Municipaliies may use general revenue funds but state, county and townships are all funded with gas taxes and vehicle registrations. Remeber that there are state gas taxes and Federal gas taxes.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    424
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's a link that claims to show how much of gas taxes contribute to highway maintenance. This source generally has an agenda, so you should be careful and read the fine print and double check their assumptions. The data is broken down by state.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/gas...-road-spending

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    22,557
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SBinNYC View Post
    Here's a link that claims to show how much of gas taxes contribute to highway maintenance. This source generally has an agenda, so you should be careful and read the fine print and double check their assumptions. The data is broken down by state.
    Thank you, that's a help. Even allowing for statistical bias it debunks the myth that roads are paid for through use taxes.

    It's interesting that NY ranks high on the use fee scale. I'm curious about how toll revenue was calculated. NYC and Port Authority tolls are an anomaly in that tolls are collected from road users and used to fund non road projects. So users of those bridges and tunnels are actually paying in excess of their "fair share" (so-called fair share).
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  12. #12
    genec genec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    san diego
    My Bikes
    custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
    Posts
    23,053
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kidd546 View Post
    In illinois highways are only paid for by gas taxes and vehicle registrations. Municipaliies may use general revenue funds but state, county and townships are all funded with gas taxes and vehicle registrations. Remeber that there are state gas taxes and Federal gas taxes.
    I honestly doubt that... I suspect Federal general funds also apply to IL highways. I suspect property taxes go to fund local roadways as is the case in most places.

  13. #13
    Senior Member gcottay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Green Valley AZ
    My Bikes
    Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
    Posts
    3,772
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SBinNYC View Post
    Here's a link that claims to show how much of gas taxes contribute to highway maintenance. This source generally has an agenda, so you should be careful and read the fine print and double check their assumptions. The data is broken down by state.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/gas...-road-spending
    Thanks for the link. They also have this table including federal funding:

    http://taxfoundation.org/blog/road-s...s-tax-revenues
    George
    Laissez les bon temps rouler

  14. #14
    Senior Member MrCjolsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Davis CA
    My Bikes
    Surly Cross-Check, '85 Giant road bike (unrecogizable fixed-gear conversion
    Posts
    3,954
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One very important part of the conversation needs to be the percentage of road spending that goes to the construction and maintenance of freeways and to the maintenance and repair of all roads and streets in general.

    If I'm riding my bicycle down the middle of the lane, I am "using" that road as much as any motorist until you consider two very important factors. First of all, I might be taking up the entire lane, but my bicycle is causing practically zero wear and tear on that road. Second, running alongside the road upon which I am riding is a freeway that I am legally prohibited from using.

    Even if the percentage of road spending that is covered by user fees is very high, you need to account for the amount of that spending that us used to pay for roads cyclists do not use and damage they do not cause.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •