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  1. #26
    Senior Member bmontgomery87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    This is a very common aggressive driver move. Namely to "Jump the Green" as hard and as fast as possible to get a left turn in before straight through traffic starts moving enough to block. Basically so they can block straight through traffic rather then being blocked by straight through traffic.

    I see it every day I'm on the roads. Seems to be more common among people driving large pick-up trucks and high end import cars.
    .
    I have trouble with this when I come through the small main street area near my house. I typically get stuck behind a car going straight, so someone in the oncoming lane tries to time their left turn directly behind the car I follow. I try to stand up and change my lane position to stay visible, but some people are jerks.

    After riding on the streets for a few months, I'm beginning to notice a trend like you're mentioning. Just certain types of car drivers seem to be inconsiderate to cyclists. I seem to have more trouble on the "nice" end of town with these high end vehicles than I do in the city.

  2. #27
    for dynamic hybrid logics prooftheory's Avatar
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    I notice regional differences in green jumping behavior. In Connecticut I used to have a hard time because I would be turning left and the light would turn green and I would yield for on-coming traffic and the person going straight in the opposite direction would end up honking at me because it was expected by default that the person turning left would jump. Even though I consider it to be illegal behavior, I kind of think that it is more important to be predictable than to follow the letter of the law. I never did get to feeling comfortable driving in Connecticut because of this contradiction.

  3. #28
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    This seems as much or more bad engineering design as bad driver behavior. The driver should have a red arrow ANYTIME there is someone legally in the crosswalk. The crosswalks should likely be raised a couple of inches to cause drivers to slow and think. More??

  4. #29
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    This is a very common aggressive driver move. Namely to "Jump the Green" as hard and as fast as possible to get a left turn in before straight through traffic starts moving enough to block. Basically so they can block straight through traffic rather then being blocked by straight through traffic.

    I see it every day I'm on the roads. Seems to be more common among people driving large pick-up trucks and high end import cars.

    Personally I think it should be worth a 1-year minimum drivers license suspension and vehicle confiscation the first time they bust you doing it with 100% draconian enforcement. It's an absolute knowing deliberate belligerent act and should be dealt with accordingly.
    I agree in spirit but not a no exceptions. Over the years I've had a few times where oncoming traffic just sits there. Couple that with having a 'three way' light on my commute home that is totally unlabeled and I just can't support a no exceptions enforcement.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    This seems as much or more bad engineering design as bad driver behavior. The driver should have a red arrow ANYTIME there is someone legally in the crosswalk. The crosswalks should likely be raised a couple of inches to cause drivers to slow and think. More??
    Yea that sound good. Lets put in a booby trap for cyclists that will do absolutely nothing to stop this.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out if some of the posters here are in a different reality than I am.

    Oh I've seen some real jerks behind the wheel but nothing even close to the consistency claimed by some in this thread.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  7. #32
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    I'm trying to figure out if some of the posters here are in a different reality than I am.

    Oh I've seen some real jerks behind the wheel but nothing even close to the consistency claimed by some in this thread.
    Srsly? Come to DC. I'm not kidding. Come to DC,get a one day bikeshare pass or rent a bike,and ride around during rush hour.

    DC invented the term 'aggressive driving'. For the past decade,our traffic fatality rate has been almost double the murder rate. Things have been slowly getting better,but they are still pretty bad. And if you want some scary numbers,look up biking fatalities for NYC.

    BTW,where do you live?

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  8. #33
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zvez View Post
    unfortunately for me, my area west central ga is not enlightened about cycling so motorists don't feel cyclists have any right to be on the road at all...........
    Atlanta n' Athens,are equally bad. Valdosta with the state college, or Milledgeville, are probably the same as a cyclist's right to be on the road. But not as hostile.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Srsly? Come to DC. I'm not kidding. Come to DC,get a one day bikeshare pass or rent a bike,and ride around during rush hour.

    DC invented the term 'aggressive driving'. For the past decade,our traffic fatality rate has been almost double the murder rate. Things have been slowly getting better,but they are still pretty bad. And if you want some scary numbers,look up biking fatalities for NYC.

    BTW,where do you live?
    Los Angeles.

    Here left turners, or for that matter cars going straight, continuing to enter the intersection after the light is red is the biggest generic problem.

    It does have a bit of a crossover, when the light starts with a left arrow and then changes to plain green they do the same pushing, which is sort of the same as far as the oncoming traffic goes. Well almost the same, the same annoyance wise, not quite as bad real danger wise as it is a continuing stream and one is slowing/not starting because of the car ahead.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  10. #35
    Junior Member Sir-bikes-alot's Avatar
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    IMHO, it's a douchbag move and clearly violates ROW. The straight traffic has the ROW and the left turn traffic should wait when the light turns green. In 30+ years in California I've only seen it done a handful of times and some have not gone well for the driver. A few weeks ago a cager did this and had to stomp on the brakes as I entered the intersection on my bike. I enjoyed holding him there for a few seconds as the cars honked because he was clogging the intersection.

  11. #36
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    I always called that a "Chicago" since I learned to do it in the 70s when I lived in Chicago. I was quite proud of being able to get the left turn in before the oncoming traffic started. I consider it an acceptable move if you can do it without making the oncoming traffic yield (in other words, if you're quick enough and/or they're lollygagging). I don't jump the red light, but take off when it turns green.

    That said, I would not do it if there were pedestrians attempting to cross - I'd use my eyes and make sure they weren't there. If there's any pedestrians around, I'd just bite the bullet and wait my turn.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Number400's Avatar
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    Here in PA, it is illegal; "Failure to yield to oncoming driver when making left turn = 3 points on your license". So it's against the law here and that is nice to know. Keeping my eyes open for it for sure.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
    Here in PA, it is illegal; "Failure to yield to oncoming driver when making left turn = 3 points on your license". So it's against the law here and that is nice to know. Keeping my eyes open for it for sure.
    It's not necessarily failure to yield any more than it would be if you turned left in a gap between two oncoming cars. If you turn left before the oncoming car even starts moving, it's not failure to yield. For example, some dip who is too busy talking on his cell phone or texting to proceed in a timely manner when his light turns green. I'd for sure turn left in front of him and not cause him any inconvenience or lack of proper yield.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Number400's Avatar
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    It's still illegal here and it actually has a name, the Pittsburgh left :-)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_left

    I am opposed to it as it is essentially jumping/timing the green and that is not safe for the scumbags who are flooring it through yellow lights or running reds.
    Last edited by Number400; 01-10-14 at 08:09 PM.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
    It's not necessarily failure to yield any more than it would be if you turned left in a gap between two oncoming cars. If you turn left before the oncoming car even starts moving, it's not failure to yield. For example, some dip who is too busy talking on his cell phone or texting to proceed in a timely manner when his light turns green. I'd for sure turn left in front of him and not cause him any inconvenience or lack of proper yield.
    Left turner is required to yield to pedestrians in intersection. So trying to make a left turn through a crosswalk with someone in it is violation #1 . Left turner is required to yield to straight traffic in intersection. So blocking that traffic is violation #2.

    http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms.../chapter_2.pdf

    And besides being illegal, it is a moronic thing to do as the left-jumper will eventually get creamed by a red light runner.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
    It's not necessarily failure to yield any more than it would be if you turned left in a gap between two oncoming cars. If you turn left before the oncoming car even starts moving, it's not failure to yield. For example, some dip who is too busy talking on his cell phone or texting to proceed in a timely manner when his light turns green. I'd for sure turn left in front of him and not cause him any inconvenience or lack of proper yield.
    Good luck getting a cop or judge to agree with you.

  17. #42
    Senior Member the fly's Avatar
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    Interesting replies on the thread. I suppose it's never ok to use common sense while driving. Just yesterday I rearended a car on my bike, after car came to a complete stop at a green light. I was trying to maintain some momentum thru the intersection, and couldn't stop in time (new salmon pads on order now). I hit their rear bumper just enough to for them to realize I was there and they took off like a scalded dog. Where I live, it's becoming an epidemic for drivers to randomly stop and green lights, stopping mid-turn, making lefts from right lane, all sorts of nonsense. If I'm making a left at an intersection, and the only thing stopping me is an idiot slumbering across from me, I will make the turn. I suspect most cops and judges would understand. No matter how many laws are on the books, the most important is common sense.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by the fly View Post
    Interesting replies on the thread. I suppose it's never ok to use common sense while driving. Just yesterday I rearended a car on my bike, after car came to a complete stop at a green light. I was trying to maintain some momentum thru the intersection, and couldn't stop in time (new salmon pads on order now). I hit their rear bumper just enough to for them to realize I was there and they took off like a scalded dog. Where I live, it's becoming an epidemic for drivers to randomly stop and green lights, stopping mid-turn, making lefts from right lane, all sorts of nonsense. If I'm making a left at an intersection, and the only thing stopping me is an idiot slumbering across from me, I will make the turn. I suspect most cops and judges would understand. No matter how many laws are on the books, the most important is common sense.
    This is more or less what I was talking about. I don't know how some folks interpreted this as me not yielding to people in a cross walk (I wouldn't make the left if there were pedestrians in the cross walk) or getting creamed by someone running a red - I happen to drive very defensively and always actually look for red-runners even when I have the right away.

    What I was talking about, pure and simple, is if the oncoming car just sits there when the light turns green, I won't wait for him to wake up, end his phone call, whatever. I'll just turn left. It's not failure to yield if the car isn't moving! I can't figure out where that comes from.

  19. #44
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    This kind of thing is why I miss the "following left turn" traffic lights of Tucson, AZ, where I grew up and first learned to drive. That system just makes more sense to me. I've had many incidents with leading left turn arrows, in which I've had to honk and shout at people who continue turning left in front of me (a couple of times nearly hitting me) in spite of the fact that their arrow is long gone and the green for through traffic is lit.

  20. #45
    Senior Member PatrickGSR94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    Also, How motorists straddle the lanes of a multi-lane road, because they don't want to pass the cyclist by going in the other lane.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    Even worse when they try that stunt on a two lane road with oncoming traffic in the other lane.
    This. Every stinking day I commute to work which is mostly 2-lane roads with no shoulder. MOST people actually do get fully into the oncoming lane to pass me. But many try it on hills and curves, even on straight roads when there is CLEARLY oncoming traffic in full view! Sometimes oncoming traffic will have to slow or even stop because of the IDIOT trying to pass me, and then they (the oncoming traffic) have the audacity to honk at ME as I pass them!
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  21. #46
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    This was a standard driving practice when I was growing up (and learning to drive) in upstate NY. As someone noted earlier, in heavy traffic with no turn arrows you only get a car at the start of the cycle and a car at the end. Technically illegal, but everyone did it and I never heard of a ticket being issued.

    I now live in the South, which was substantially urbanized only in the last few decades, so most roads have turn lanes and arrows. Such of move would be out of place here. (And the drivers here tend to be too slow to pull it off. I have a left turn light I go through every morning that it isn't all that long, but you can get half a dozen cars through if everyone pays attention and gets off the line quickly. Instead, you often only get three cars through. And since they installed cameras, you don't dare try it on the yellow.)

  22. #47
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 View Post
    This. Every stinking day I commute to work which is mostly 2-lane roads with no shoulder. MOST people actually do get fully into the oncoming lane to pass me. But many try it on hills and curves, even on straight roads when there is CLEARLY oncoming traffic in full view! Sometimes oncoming traffic will have to slow or even stop because of the IDIOT trying to pass me, and then they (the oncoming traffic) have the audacity to honk at ME as I pass them!
    They want to make sure you know that they are just as stupid as the motorist who passed you.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  23. #48
    Senior Member shoemakerpom's Avatar
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    It happened so many times and quite often in my county in the past ten years that it has caused the DOT to put cameras on all the light intersections in my county and neighboring counties. The cameras have put a huge dent in stupid driver moves like that since the cameras went up.

  24. #49
    Senior Member PatrickGSR94's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoemakerpom View Post
    It happened so many times and quite often in my county in the past ten years that it has caused the DOT to put cameras on all the light intersections in my county and neighboring counties. The cameras have put a huge dent in stupid driver moves like that since the cameras went up.
    So they have actual people monitoring all these cameras, and they issue citations if they see someone doing something like that? I know that red light cameras can be automated to snap a pic of someone running a red light, but with these quick left turns, the cameras in the perpendicular direction would have to be the ones catching the license plates and drivers' faces.
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  25. #50
    Senior Member shoemakerpom's Avatar
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    Yes the cameras are set on both poles and cover the areas from all angles. Citations might not be issued at the exact time but if an accident is the result there is basically no fighting it if your blatantly caught in the wrong. Also the citation for that move is a minimum $180 doubled from last year which has people in the county who can't drive correctly up in arms.

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