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-   -   Aggressive drivers turning left on green with the light change (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/927185-aggressive-drivers-turning-left-green-light-change.html)

ItsJustMe 02-26-14 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 (Post 16529737)
So they have actual people monitoring all these cameras, and they issue citations if they see someone doing something like that? I know that red light cameras can be automated to snap a pic of someone running a red light, but with these quick left turns, the cameras in the perpendicular direction would have to be the ones catching the license plates and drivers' faces.

It wouldn't be hard to automate. They can detect a car in the turn lane proceeding when there's still someone on the straight through traffic sensor, or had moved off just a moment ago.

Feldman 03-07-14 10:25 AM

Remember--they're drivers, so they are temporarily not people. No irony or humor meant, not the least little bit.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Number400 (Post 16353460)
Four way intersection. Each direction has a turn lane and a straight/right turn lane combination. Lighted crosswalk signs with painted crosswalk on road.

We were astride our bikes on the pedestrian/bike path (this is an official, marked bike route that is also a sidewalk) and pressed the cross button. Lights changed our way and our walk sign lit up at the same instant the light turned green. An oncoming driver in the opposing left turn lane started to race through to turn left before the cars with us began to move. I was looking back and forth to make sure no drivers were turning right from behind me as I was entering the crosswalk. So I get a few feet into the crosswalk and swivel my head back and see him going for it. He has to slam on his brakes but is now looking like he is attempting to time me and dart behind but still try to beat the oncoming traffic. He winds up partially blocking the opposing traffic from making it through the intersection. I yelled "don't do it!", but had already put myself in harms way by entering the crosswalk. I guess it is another lesson and situation to put on my list of things to watch out for. It happened pretty fast and I usually wait for a few seconds before entering an intersection but in this case there was zero cross traffic in either direction.

Life really is cheap for a few impatient and dangerous drivers.


vol 03-07-14 03:22 PM

I had to keep reminding me of watching for the vehicles coming from the opposite direction making left turn or U-turn in front of me, because I experienced the same many times. Many drivers cut you off when they see you are on a bike. Whenever a driver actually waited to let me pass before making the left turn, I knew (and proved right) that it's not because of me, but there was a vehicle following behind me, that made the opposite driver stop and wait. IOW, those drivers yield for other vehicles but not bikes.

(Side note: it's common in jay-walker pedestrians too: if they stopped to let me go through, chances are they saw a car behind me ;))

FBinNY 03-07-14 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vol (Post 16558143)
I had to keep reminding me of watching for the vehicles coming from the opposite direction making left turn or U-turn in front of me, because I experienced the same many times. Many drivers cut you off when they see you are on a bike. Whenever a driver actually waited to let me pass before making the left turn, I knew (and proved right) that it's not because of me, but there was a vehicle following behind me, that made the opposite driver stop and wait. IOW, those drivers yield for other vehicles but not bikes.

(Side note: it's common in jay-walker pedestrians too: if they stopped to let me go through, chances are they saw a car behind me ;))

Required watching for anyone just starting out riding in NYC. A three minute video that shows how it really is, rather than what it should be.

noglider 03-07-14 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16558237)
Required watching for anyone just starting out riding in NYC. A three minute video that shows how it really is, rather than what it should be.

I'm glad you reposted it, because I think about it a lot. Now I bookmarked it.

It's amusing when people from places where they drive more orderly than we do chastise us about running lights or jaywalking. They need to understand what it means to do as the Romans do.

PatrickGSR94 03-08-14 07:25 AM

Seems to me that video is more-so showing the crazy messenger-type cyclists weaving through traffic and running lights than it is showing just the everyday commuter. But man some of those motorists were ARSE HOLES!!

Mvcrash 03-08-14 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carusoswi (Post 16367214)
Hate to be contrary, but it sounds to me as though the driver trying to "jump" the light (actually, based upon my interpretation of what the OP wrote, the driver only moved on green - just because he moves before oncoming traffic doesn't make him a "jumper" in my book). ultimately did exactly what is required of him in this situation. Being alert to the opportunity to making a left turn on green ahead of oncoming traffic is no violation. Obviously, the driver must wait for the intersection to clear and must be aware of and avoid collision with pedestrians or cyclists in the crosswalk.

It sounds to me that he managed to do this in the OP's case.

Furthermore, he is no more guilty of "jumping" the green than the OP, who also appears to have "jumped" the green. OP, you have the entire light cycle to safely make it across the intersection. The "jumping" motorist will sit through that same cycle if he cannot safely make the left ahead of oncoming traffic.

Fortunately, there is no blood here, and that is how I call it, no blood.

As operators of vehicles (motorized and not), we all tend to view situations from our perspective alone.

In reality, there are always two sides to every coin.

If I were a motorist, in line behind the "jumper" in this case, I would be grateful that he was alert enough to make his left ahead of the oncoming traffic - one more car that can get through the light at a congested intersection. As a cyclist, I would try to be more aware, sympathetic to the fact that I save almost no time in getting through the intersection ahead of "jumper". Be aware and let him pass, then be on my way safely. No need for me to assert my vehicular rights in this situation.

OP, in my view, the motorist was at least as alert as you, since he stopped. The momentary blocking of the intersection (for the oncoming motorists) was of minor consequence.

There is no cop that would cite "jumper" as he committed no infraction. To suggest a license suspension is beyond extreme in my view.

Happy cycling.

Caruso

Even if the other traffic has not moved yet, it is "Failure to Yield the Right of Way at an Interserction."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number400 (Post 16398060)
Here in PA, it is illegal; "Failure to yield to oncoming driver when making left turn = 3 points on your license". So it's against the law here and that is nice to know. Keeping my eyes open for it for sure.

Yep, points and a fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camilo (Post 16400637)
It's not necessarily failure to yield any more than it would be if you turned left in a gap between two oncoming cars. If you turn left before the oncoming car even starts moving, it's not failure to yield. For example, some dip who is too busy talking on his cell phone or texting to proceed in a timely manner when his light turns green. I'd for sure turn left in front of him and not cause him any inconvenience or lack of proper yield.

Still a violation, I've written it many times and never had one bounced. The testimony is the through traffic "could not start" that is why the held their position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrankyOne (Post 16402840)
Good luck getting a cop or judge to agree with you.

Cop will write, prosecutor will prosecute and Judge will Convict. I worked in a very heavily travelled area of the US and wrote that summons all the time. It just pissed me off due to the lack of concern for anyone else. Always thought it to be dangerous.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsJustMe (Post 16529763)
It wouldn't be hard to automate. They can detect a car in the turn lane proceeding when there's still someone on the straight through traffic sensor, or had moved off just a moment ago.

The laws governing the use of the cameras are specific to the red light violation and has no points attached to your license for paying the fine. They are not interested in public safety, just the collection of money. I'm not sure the person who reviews the video can write a summons based on the what they see in the video, but it is a good question.

***Caveat: I only know NY/NJ/PA and some CT stuff, so if it is different in the other 46, forgive me.****

Camilo 03-11-14 03:58 PM

I just don't understand how it can be "failure to yield" if the oncoming car is not moving and/or you do not cause the oncoming car to slow or brake.

Why is it any different than turning left in a safe gap between two oncoming cars?

John Forester 03-11-14 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camilo (Post 16568950)
I just don't understand how it can be "failure to yield" if the oncoming car is not moving and/or you do not cause the oncoming car to slow or brake.

Why is it any different than turning left in a safe gap between two oncoming cars?

It is failure to yield because both drivers are facing reds that simultaneously change to green. Both have equal chances to start, and, therefore, the left turning driver should yield to the straight-through driver.

Camilo 03-11-14 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Forester (Post 16569046)
It is failure to yield because both drivers are facing reds that simultaneously change to green. Both have equal chances to start, and, therefore, the left turning driver should yield to the straight-through driver.

I probably just sound argumentative and apologize for that. But, if the oncoming driver is just sitting there (my example above, distracted by a cell phone or whatever), and I just go ahead and turn left while he/she is just sitting there, I guess it's a judgement call for the LEO as to whether to ticket me. If I caused that driver to have to brake or avoid me, yea, sure, definitely failure to yield.

I also understand that the quick jumped left turn I used to do in the city using my youthful sharp reflexes to get in front of the oncoming car because he/she wasn't as quick off the line as me would be considered failure to yield.


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