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  1. #1
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Great message... not likely to be seen in the US though...



    This is perhaps the biggest issue against speeding... that you just don't have time if someone else makes a mistake.

    I know here on BF I have argued with people that regularly speed, and cite the basic speed law as their justification... while forgetting the laws of physics.

    Driving below the speed limit may just give you the opportunity to avoid a situation like this.

    BTW, what does this have to do with cycling... everything... we are road users too.

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    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    What's the speed limit got to do with it? The slower you go the more time you have regardless of the limit. Frankly, I don't have many issues with drivers around here who almost all drive 10-15 mph over the posted limits. It's other types of behavior that I find more of a problem and potentially dangerous.

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    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    What's the speed limit got to do with it? The slower you go the more time you have regardless of the limit. Frankly, I don't have many issues with drivers around here who almost all drive 10-15 mph over the posted limits. It's other types of behavior that I find more of a problem and potentially dangerous.
    But it is additive to distracted driving etc. Compare an idiot texter at 20mph and the same one at 35 in a 20 mph zone.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

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    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Really not cycling safety and advocacy, unless you believe speeding cyclists are a problem. That plus, how slow is slow enough. This "public awareness" message makes me think they believe that 10 mph would be better than 15 in a car.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
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  5. #5
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Speed limits are ideally set for the environment. A lower limit typically means that the environment has more chance of things happening - driveways, pedestrians, blind corners, rough surfaces that increase stopping distance and reduce handling ability, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    What's the speed limit got to do with it? The slower you go the more time you have regardless of the limit. Frankly, I don't have many issues with drivers around here who almost all drive 10-15 mph over the posted limits. It's other types of behavior that I find more of a problem and potentially dangerous.
    35 in a 20 mph school zone? 45 in a 30 mph zone? Yeah, sorry, I got a problem with that.

    -mr. bill

  7. #7
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    I found the video to be slightly spooky. I know the meat of the video focuses on speed, but it was still spooky to me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Pibber's Avatar
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    i don't drive anymore. but, if i did, i'd be a bit more cognizant of my environment. i wish other drivers were more aware of their surroundings and that not everybody is paying attention, regardless of their vehicle of choice.

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    Great video, genec.

    I would have been the guy in the suit once, except I was driving 80,000 pounds of goo. The speed limit was 55 mph, typical rural road in CA. When I saw the woman driving a car with a couple of kids approach the T-intersection, I instinctively downshifted and dropped five mph. The driver fooled me by actually stopping at the stop sign before she pulled out right in front of me. As I was frantically hitting the jakes, blasting the air-horn (to get her to accelerate as though her life depended on it, which it did) and using the brakes as much as possible without putting myself or a trailer into the ditch on the right or into the oncoming car, all I could see was a child's face getting bigger and bigger in front of me. That was, without a doubt, the worst few seconds of my life.

  10. #10
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    35 in a 20 mph school zone? 45 in a 30 mph zone? Yeah, sorry, I got a problem with that.

    -mr. bill
    It comes down to either a blind faith in a "legally posted number" or recognizing what an appropriate speed is in a given situation. (BTW, I'm agreeing with you here.) Those legally posted numbers are posted for the benefit of those either too thick, or self absorbed, to have a concept of the latter. Sadly, posting what is a reasonable speed does not always affect those who would ignore the laws of physics, and the rules of common decency.
    As much as you paid for that Beemer [Mercedies, Audi, Escalade], I'm surprised it didn't come equipped with turn signals.

  11. #11
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Really not cycling safety and advocacy, unless you believe speeding cyclists are a problem. That plus, how slow is slow enough. This "public awareness" message makes me think they believe that 10 mph would be better than 15 in a car.
    Works the other way 'round. If a motorist is speeding, a cyclist has less reaction room in the presence of that speeding motorist. One of the hardest things to do is estimate the speed of traffic coming right at you. If you are judging your traffic moves based on the speed of motorists as they pass and you make a move and the next motorist is going much faster, you just got screwed.

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    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Thats right, commutecomando, anybody who does not agree with your estimation of an appropriate speed is "think" or "self absorbed". I think may you fit that, based on the unforgiving judgement you pass on others. BTW, I rarely drive, and tend to be 5 mph below posted limits, but I acknowledge that other drivers may feel that a higher speed is appropritate.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Genec Not understanding on what works the other way around. I said that the film clip makes me think they believe that 10 is better than 15 and thats better than the speed limit. Are you saying the speed limit is better ten 15 is better than 10?O

    h I get it, you are saying that anything that gets drivers to slow down is appropriate cycling advocacy. Ok I don't agree but thats OK, we don't necessarily need to agree. I don't feel like any generic autocentric safety programs automatically include cycling advocates. Sometimes they do, but not by necessity.
    Last edited by howsteepisit; 01-08-14 at 10:09 AM.
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    Senior Member walrus1's Avatar
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    Great video! Australia really has some great PSAs. I'd say a call to slow down and not speed is very relevant to cyclists.

    OT:
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    35 in a 20 mph school zone? 45 in a 30 mph zone? Yeah, sorry, I got a problem with that.

    -mr. bill
    I used to wonder about that until I moved to my current apartment which is on the street of an elementary/ middle school. Besides the ever present double parking in school I've seen the kids cross mid-block without looking. Parents swing open car doors, again, without looking and crossing guards just decide to stop traffic to allow a group of kids to cross against the light. I think the later instills very bad and unsafe habits in them. Hence a slower speed limit is needed to give drivers more time to react in such conjested and irregular conditions. By the way some school zones are 15 MPH in the NYC now.
    Last edited by walrus1; 01-08-14 at 10:29 AM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member enigmaT120's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Really not cycling safety and advocacy, unless you believe speeding cyclists are a problem. That plus, how slow is slow enough. This "public awareness" message makes me think they believe that 10 mph would be better than 15 in a car.
    I guess a walking speed is slow enough, as I've run over a rabbit on foot whilst running.

    I wish that video would get shown here. My wife had a truck stop, then pull out in front of her once (she was not speeding, it was a 55 zone), so have I, and a friend of mine at work was recently the one who pulled out in front and got nailed.

    Now that I think about it, none of the three wrecks I mentioned had anybody speeding. But I still like the video and wish it would be shown here.

    I'm afraid to ask B.Carfree how his story turned out.
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  16. #16
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommuteCommando View Post
    It comes down to either a blind faith in a "legally posted number" or recognizing what an appropriate speed is in a given situation. (BTW, I'm agreeing with you here.) Those legally posted numbers are posted for the benefit of those either too thick, or self absorbed, to have a concept of the latter. Sadly, posting what is a reasonable speed does not always affect those who would ignore the laws of physics, and the rules of common decency.
    I know of many stretches of road that have things on them that affect the safe speed but are not visible to a new driver on that road until it's too late. Blind driveways are a good example. You can drive a stretch near my house and have no idea that you're approaching a driveway where the people coming out of the driveway can't see you either. it seems like a stretch of road that you could do 50 on, but 35 to 40 is probably about as fast as is really safe.

    There's a stretch of road where our family vacations often where, at the end of 15 miles of beautiful, covered road, lightly rolling and nice to drive at 55 MPH, you come up on a sign that says "reduced speed, 20 MPH" and one that indicates a left curve ahead. Then after a small rise, the road drops sharply and turns hard to the left, just in a spot where on-shore winds frequently blow loose sand over the road. The men at the monastery that have a store right on that corner say that about 5 cars and 10 to 15 motorcycles wind up in the ditch/trees there every year, because they figure they know what conditions are better than the signs do.
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  17. #17
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    This really isn't a bicycle topic, it's a rant against drivers, which is not what A&S is about...we are about coexistance with existing infrastructures and the advancement of safety to ALL. It is not Us versus Them, it is US AND THEM.

    We are not here to replace all cars, unless you can move a family of six from Portland, OR to Jackson, MS with a bicycle. Such arguments are ludicrous and counterproductive. If you wish to post a car-free topic, try the car free section.

    If you want to inform drivers about such things talk to some drivers. Here you are preaching to the choir and that isn't advocacy at all...it's jawboning.
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  18. #18
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    Great video, genec.

    I would have been the guy in the suit once, except I was driving 80,000 pounds of goo. The speed limit was 55 mph, typical rural road in CA. When I saw the woman driving a car with a couple of kids approach the T-intersection, I instinctively downshifted and dropped five mph. The driver fooled me by actually stopping at the stop sign before she pulled out right in front of me. As I was frantically hitting the jakes, blasting the air-horn (to get her to accelerate as though her life depended on it, which it did) and using the brakes as much as possible without putting myself or a trailer into the ditch on the right or into the oncoming car, all I could see was a child's face getting bigger and bigger in front of me. That was, without a doubt, the worst few seconds of my life.
    And I share your feeling of abject terror completely on that in that instance as well as supporting the point of the video genec posted. Still, none of this involves bicycles.
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  19. #19
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Rollfast... this is not a rant against drivers... it is about how we all share the road... and that is the aspect that we need to keep in mind, that cyclists are road users too.

    Why did I post this here specifically? As I stated in the OP, I have had conversations with CYCLISTS here on BF that contend that they can DRIVE as fast as they want on roads and cite "basic speed law" as their reason why...

    Yet they miss that others may also be using the roads... such as cyclists.

    This is basically a message to all road users, that for all of us to get along, we all have to be predictable...

  20. #20
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    I'd love to know where, outside the Yturri Beltway, anybody is going to go 15-20 MPH over the speed limit in Ontario, OR and where cyclists are threatened by this.

    Having cycled that Beltway a few times, I can't find it any better or worse than riding into Nyssa on Hwy 20-26, which I also did for years.

    You haven't tied this in to how it affects most city cyclists and furthermore, your message really is more about following distance than speed.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
    Still, none of this involves bicycles.
    Though this ad does not involve bicycles, it is a great message to motorist in keeping their speed in check, and maybe even slower than the posted speed limit. Instead of a motor vehicle, it could be a pedestrian or a cyclist trying to cross a residential street, those extra few feet per second could make all the difference in lessening the collision impact forces or avoiding a collision altogether.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enigmaT120 View Post
    I guess a walking speed is slow enough, as I've run over a rabbit on foot whilst running.

    I wish that video would get shown here. My wife had a truck stop, then pull out in front of her once (she was not speeding, it was a 55 zone), so have I, and a friend of mine at work was recently the one who pulled out in front and got nailed.

    Now that I think about it, none of the three wrecks I mentioned had anybody speeding. But I still like the video and wish it would be shown here.

    I'm afraid to ask B.Carfree how his story turned out.
    I guess I left that out. As the child's face grew in my windshield, there was a puff of smoke from the tailpipe of the car. With that, her acceleration combined with my deceleration allowed everyone to roll away unscathed, although I did get my first gray hairs that summer.

    Oddly enough, I was only driving a tomato truck because I had a desire to know why the folks driving them were such menaces to the cyclists on our local roadways. I learned that there is a tremendous variation in quality depending on company and that the safest firm was steadily taking over the tomato-hauling market. I also found out that those folks can drive twelve hours per day on sixteen hour shifts and not take a single day off over a four-week period. It's not so much that they are driving distracted as they are hallucinating from sleep deprivation.

    Back on topic, it's odd how over and over again we have discussions in A&S regarding the impact of speed differential in car/bike relationships. Genec posts a wonderful video dealing with one aspect of the hazards of driving too fast for conditions and people attack it as not bike-specific enough.

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    Coming up on 3,000,000 views. We can safely guess that the number of folks who will see this ad will exceed the population of New Zealand by the end of today. (That is, it is being seen all over the world, including the US.)

    -mr. bill

  24. #24
    Lover of Old Chrome Moly Myosmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Really not cycling safety and advocacy, unless you believe speeding cyclists are a problem. That plus, how slow is slow enough. This "public awareness" message makes me think they believe that 10 mph would be better than 15 in a car.
    Missed it by that much

    The biggest point in the ad is that everyone makes mistakes on the road and that slowing down and taking your time decreases the consequences of those mistakes. Both drivers in the ad made a mistake, one was speeding, the other misjudged his timing in pulling into an intersection. Cyclists are not immune from this effect. While most of us aren't traveling over the posted speed limit (though I have seen a few doing over a 20 mph limit) there are some riders who treat every ride on a MUP like hard core training and every Strava segment like a sprint to the yellow jersey in the TdF. The most important piece of safety equipment you possess is between your ears. We all have to use good judgement to know when to slow down, pause when appropriate, and generally be aware that we are not the only ones on the road. Everyone, even good cyclists and drivers, have lapses in judgement and this ad just points out that it is in everyone's best interest to drive or ride in anticipation of other's mistakes (and our own). Yep, this ad applies to us too.

    No, you don't have to drive 10 mph in a 30 mph zone to be safe, but at the same time you don't have to do a constant 30 if traffic, road conditions, visibility, etc. make a lower speed more appropriate. Is it really a problem to back off the accelerator and be ready to brake when approaching an intersection with cross traffic or blind corners? Same on your bike, when you have kids playing in a residential street in front of you, slow down, cover your brake and give them some extra room just in case. If there is a little old lady who looks confused, or a teen on a cell phone waiting at the intersection ahead, adjust your timing and be aware of your bail outs if they pull out in front of you. I see a lot of traffic accidents and, while I agree that distracted driving is a huge problem, it is no more so than people who are just plain in too much of a hurry. Many "accidents" are actually lapses of judgement in failing to take appropriate measures to prevent reasonably foreseeable events. Of the non-alcohol related fatal accidents I see, I'd estimate about 90% involve excessive speed for the conditions, failure to yield or blowing stop signs. These may or may not be exacerbated by distractions to the driver.

    Let's ride and drive like we have each others backs instead of as if we are in each other's way.
    Last edited by Myosmith; 01-09-14 at 07:01 AM.
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  25. #25
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myosmith View Post

    Let's ride and drive like we have each others backs instead of as if we are in each other's way.
    Exactly! "Watch out for the other guy" should not be a warning as much as it should be encouragement to one another.

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