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  1. #26
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Can anyone post even one example of a cyclist who got injured or killed by a weed-impaired driver?
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  2. #27
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Can anyone post even one example of a cyclist who got injured or killed by a weed-impaired driver?
    This "problem" is just like the over-hyped irrational fear of cellphone talking drivers mowing down cyclists left and right. To those convinced that their nightmares are true, lack of evidence is irrelevant. The cause of any otherwise unexplained accident or collision can be attributed to the evil product whether there is any evidence or not.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    This "problem" is just like the over-hyped irrational fear of cellphone talking drivers mowing down cyclists left and right. To those convinced that their nightmares are true, lack of evidence is irrelevant. The cause of any otherwise unexplained accident or collision can be attributed to the evil product whether there is any evidence or not.
    +1

    Like so many debates here on BF and elsewhere the conclusions are predetermined by the underlying assumptions. Those who believe that drinking, cellphones, or other factors cause accidents will always find "evidence" to support that. Those who don't believe it, will alsways find other causes, or consider the evidence shaky or anecdotal.

    Fact is, these issues aren't black and white, and most accidents have multiple contributing factors, allowing each person to tease out something to point to can call the smoking ***.

    Unlike many MJ supporters (for lack or a better descriptive), I'm convinced that MJ impaired drivers are no safer than alcohol impaired drivers and the issue is the degree of impairment, rather than the cause. OTOH, it's very naive to assume that there aren't already many MJ impaired drivers out there. I doubt that the new law will somehow make MJ users more responsible, or reduce the numbers or degree, but I'm likewise not expecting a sudden surge in impaired driving.
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  4. #29
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    There is also the possibility that if legal than those who partake will choose more responsible times/places to do so as they don't have to be restricted to covert opportunities which may be more likely to happen before or while driving somewhere instead of after getting there.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
    There is also the possibility that if legal than those who partake will choose more responsible times/places to do so as they don't have to be restricted to covert opportunities which may be more likely to happen before or while driving somewhere instead of after getting there.
    Yes, possibilities abound. We're awash in a sea of possibilities. The hard part is moving from possibilities to probabilities and then to evidenced based

    BTW- this is all stuff that was probably was tossed around during the run up to the referendum. OTOH, possibly the lure of an economic windfall and added tax revenue overrode those concerns. I'll wait and see if the total auto accident rate in CO changes in a way different from national trends.
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    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Number400's Avatar
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    I worked with HR in a warehouse and the company had a strict drug test policy. Anyone involved in an accident in the warehouse had to immediately be taken to a drug testing center and provide a sample. I don't know if warehouse workers have a high party rate in general but most of the people involved in these accidents tested positive for <24 hour cannabis use and were terminated. It got so bad, people were quitting the moment after accidents because they knew they would fail the test and get fired anyway.

    It is not as easy for the police to test for on the roadside as booze is. I know people drive around with a lot of different chemical substances in their systems who should not be driving at all and it sucks for all of our safety. Now add someone who may try it out now that its legal in their area and let them decide if they are cool to drive when they have no idea if they are impaired or not. Sigh, rant off.

  7. #32
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
    I worked with HR in a warehouse and the company had a strict drug test policy. Anyone involved in an accident in the warehouse had to immediately be taken to a drug testing center and provide a sample. I don't know if warehouse workers have a high party rate in general but most of the people involved in these accidents tested positive for <24 hour cannabis use and were terminated. It got so bad, people were quitting the moment after accidents because they knew they would fail the test and get fired anyway.
    Given the circumstances described, the company can righteously announce that the cause of every accident in the warehouse was due to impaired employee conduct and cease any further serious investigation of the actual cause of those accidents.

    If there are problems in hiring practices, supervision, equipment, training, lighting conditions, or any need for additional safety countermeasures to reduce the risk of warehouse accidents, it is unlikely that the company's draconian blame the drugs problem solving methods will find them.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Number400's Avatar
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    I found this interesting: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0053127

    A study about THC and motor skills and long term cognitive impairment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8pEKwVl9tA


  9. #34
    Senior Member Brennan's Avatar
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    As has already been discussed, there is not enough available evidence to form a reliable conclusion. More time has to pass and more data needs to be gathered. That said, my guess is that very little will change post-legalization, other than people being more open about their usage and fewer people being arrested/cited/fined for it.

  10. #35
    Senior Member Chicago Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brennan View Post
    As has already been discussed, there is not enough available evidence to form a reliable conclusion. More time has to pass and more data needs to be gathered. That said, my guess is that very little will change post-legalization, other than people being more open about their usage and fewer people being arrested/cited/fined for it.
    That, and the state taking in a lot of tax revenue, a bunch of new, legal, above-board businesses starting up, a bunch of illegal businesses shutting down, and a good number fewer people in the criminal justice system.
    I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.

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  11. #36
    Senior Member degnaw's Avatar
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    I'm sure you're still much safer riding in Washington or Colorado than in almost any other state, considering those were the (LAB 2013) #1 and #2 states for cycling in the country.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Brennan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago Al View Post
    That, and the state taking in a lot of tax revenue, a bunch of new, legal, above-board businesses starting up, a bunch of illegal businesses shutting down, and a good number fewer people in the criminal justice system.
    Good points. Agreed.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Given the circumstances described, the company can righteously announce that the cause of every accident in the warehouse was due to impaired employee conduct and cease any further serious investigation of the actual cause of those accidents.

    If there are problems in hiring practices, supervision, equipment, training, lighting conditions, or any need for additional safety countermeasures to reduce the risk of warehouse accidents, it is unlikely that the company's draconian blame the drugs problem solving methods will find them.
    As a LTL truck driver I sometimes service facilities like this. Rented warehouse, rented forklifts, rented office furniture, temp or minimum wage workers..........

    Its a viable business model these days, high turnover is actually desired.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    I think the major safety factor is being overlooked entirely. I agree impairment is a major factor... particularly with the cyclists usage. But in my decades of experience... I've never known of anyone that forewent pot use because of fear of criminal penalty. Never.

    The true risk factor in cycling is traffic related. Simply... the size, weight, mass of the cars/trucks/busses we share the roads with... tilt the risk against us cyclists. I can't see where ANYTHING changes by having legal sales of a drug already in widespread use. The math... just does NOT change when pot distributors become registered with the state.

    Risk is nether higher... or lower.
    Last edited by Dave Cutter; 03-07-14 at 08:45 AM.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Looigi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
    .... I've never known of anyone that forewent pot use because of fear of criminal penalty. Never...
    Perhaps you haven't, but IMO, the illegality of it has served as a deterrence to many who either stopped using it completely or greatly reduced the frequency they've used it. I know many people who have used it but quit, and I believe the illegality and associated social stigma of it was a major factor contributing to their quitting.
    Ride more. Fret less.

  16. #41
    Senior Member Dave Cutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
    Perhaps you haven't, but IMO, the illegality of it has served as a deterrence to many who either stopped using it completely or greatly reduced the frequency they've used it. I know many people who have used it but quit, and I believe the illegality and associated social stigma of it was a major factor contributing to their quitting.
    I am sure your right. However... the laws really only change the legality of the sales of the drug. The use while driving (and/or CYCLING) is still as illegal as ever. In that regard.... no risk factor has changed.

  17. #42
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    How can having more drivers on the road driving impared make the roads more safe?
    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Listening to a pot smoker tell me that pot smoking makes a driver safer is like listening to an alcoholic saying the same thing. IMO both are brain damaged.
    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Just on the news this morning it is reported that the number of pot impared accidents have greatly increased.

    I guess that answers that question.
    Since marijuana legalization, highway fatalities in Colorado are at near-historic lows

    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  18. #43
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Apparently there has been some reduction in auto collisions since pot use was legalized...
    Report shows fewer traffic fatalities after states pass medical-pot laws - The Denver Post

    The study — by University of Colorado Denver professor Daniel Rees and Montana State University professor D. Mark Anderson — found that the traffic-death rate drops by nearly 9 percent in states after they legalize marijuana for medical use. The researchers arrived at that figure, Rees said, after controlling for other variables such as changes in traffic laws, seat-belt usage and miles driven.
    Could it be that the pot heads simply fill their bongs and then quietly pass out on the couch?

    The study also found that medical- marijuana legalization is associated with a drop in beer sales.

  19. #44
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    Stoners are less competitive. The demand for carbon fibre bikes will decrease. Fewer accidents from catastrophic carbon fibre failure.

    Please don't ask me to provide evidence.

  20. #45
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugyug View Post
    Stoners are less competitive. The demand for carbon fibre bikes will decrease. Fewer accidents from catastrophic carbon fibre failure.

    Please don't ask me to provide evidence.
    Don't need no stinkin' evidence; stone cold logic rulz! Donncha know?

  21. #46
    Senior Member italktocats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    Why would it make riding safer? I don't understand your premise.
    ever saw a stoner speeding?



  22. #47
    Senior Member italktocats's Avatar
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    oh this was a serious thread?

  23. #48
    Senior Member italktocats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Listening to a pot smoker tell me that pot smoking makes a driver safer is like listening to an alcoholic saying the same thing. IMO both are brain damaged.
    you need to read up on some medical research

  24. #49
    Senior Member italktocats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number400 View Post
    I worked with HR in a warehouse and the company had a strict drug test policy. Anyone involved in an accident in the warehouse had to immediately be taken to a drug testing center and provide a sample. I don't know if warehouse workers have a high party rate in general but most of the people involved in these accidents tested positive for <24 hour cannabis use and were terminated. It got so bad, people were quitting the moment after accidents because they knew they would fail the test and get fired anyway.

    It is not as easy for the police to test for on the roadside as booze is. I know people drive around with a lot of different chemical substances in their systems who should not be driving at all and it sucks for all of our safety. Now add someone who may try it out now that its legal in their area and let them decide if they are cool to drive when they have no idea if they are impaired or not. Sigh, rant off.
    maybe because drugstests test positive for cannabis for 2 weeks to several months, the same reason theres no standard for road tests

  25. #50
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    Since its been legalized I do pass tokers on the local MUT every now and then, and occasionally catch a wiff from another vehicle going down the road.
    Other than that I haven't noticed any differences, I suspect the only change is when and where folks light up.

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