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-   -   Sad! (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/937908-sad.html)

vandutch 03-12-14 12:52 PM

Sad!
 
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com

vandutch 03-12-14 12:59 PM

Also read the comments. alot of people dont like cyclists sharing the road.
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com

vandutch 03-12-14 09:53 PM

FYI the guys were 35 and 39 years old.

rydabent 03-13-14 07:24 AM

Yes it is sad.

Anyone in the area keep us posted as to what the driver is charged with.

dynodonn 03-13-14 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vandutch (Post 16571537)
Also read the comments. alot of people dont like cyclists sharing the road.
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com

....and some people really don't understand the rules of the road, especially when it comes to cyclists. Here's a comment from one person than left me rather amazed.

"Making a left turn on a bicycle requires the bicyclist to remain on the RIGHT side of the roadway, cross over to the opposite right side of the roadway turn to the left and complete the left turn all while staying on the right side of the road... The safest place to be. Never make a left turn in the left turn lane when on a bicycle on a busy road!"

:wtf:

mr_bill 03-13-14 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynodonn (Post 16573816)
....and some people really don't understand the rules of the road, especially when it comes to cyclists. Here's a comment from one person than left me rather amazed.

"Making a left turn on a bicycle requires the bicyclist to remain on the RIGHT side of the roadway, cross over to the opposite right side of the roadway turn to the left and complete the left turn all while staying on the right side of the road... The safest place to be. Never make a left turn in the left turn lane when on a bicycle on a busy road!"

:wtf:

Not only is the comment simply wrong, it's victim blaming.

In some states, cyclists are *allowed* to, but not *required* to, make what some people call a "bicycle left turn."

Utah is one of them.

Quote:

41-6a-1108. Bicycles and mopeds -- Turns -- Designated lanes.
(1) A person riding a bicycle or moped and intending to turn left shall comply
with Section 41-6a-801 or [emphasis mine] Subsection (2).
(2) (a) A person riding a bicycle or moped intending to turn left shall approach
the turn as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.
(b) After proceeding across the intersecting roadway, to the far corner of the
curb or intersection of the roadway edges, the bicyclist or moped operator shall stop, as
far out of the way of traffic as practical.
(c) After stopping, the bicyclist or moped operator shall yield to any traffic
proceeding in either direction along the roadway he had been using.
(d) After yielding and complying with any traffic-control device or peace officer
regulating traffic, the bicyclist or moped operator may proceed in the new direction.
(3) (a) Notwithstanding Subsections (1) and (2), a highway authority in its
respective jurisdiction may place traffic-control devices that require and direct turning
bicyclists and moped operators to travel a specific course.
(b) When the devices are placed under Subsection (3)(a), a person may not turn
a bicycle other than as directed by the devices.
The investigation is on going.

So sad.


-mr. bill

FBinNY 03-13-14 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_bill (Post 16573914)
...

In some states, cyclists are *allowed* to, but not *required* to, make what some people call a "bicycle left turn."

This is often called a Copenhagen Left. I don't know that it's ever required, but is often taught to children as a safer way to make a left turn. Even for experienced adults, it's sometimes plan B when traffic flow makes merging left difficult.

It's also possible that it's required at specific intersections here and there (though I don't know of any offhand). If so, there would have to be signage directing cyclists to turn this way.

Copenhagen left's are also used here and there for motor traffic, though it's done with a ramp, often called a jug handle, and might have signage saying "exit right for left turns" or similar.

Same principle, different name.

3alarmer 03-13-14 05:50 PM

.
...there's a thread on this incident in road. It went south in a hurry.:(

FBinNY 03-13-14 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3alarmer (Post 16575574)
.
...there's a thread on this incident in road. It went south in a hurry.:(

I agree. It's sad enough that accidents like this happen in the first place. Using them to trot out the boilerplate warnings demeans the victims.

spivonious 03-14-14 07:11 AM

The comments on the story are mostly supportive, which is good to see. We'll probably never know exactly what happened.

Lights or not, we all must remember that bicycles have a very narrow profile from head-on. Always assume the other guy doesn't see you, especially in the dark.

dynodonn 03-14-14 08:57 AM

There seems to be tons of advice for what cyclists need to be doing, but very little in the way being said for the many motorists who drive a bull in a china shop.

FBinNY 03-17-14 11:14 PM

It's not just bicycles. Most (all?) states have full time headlights on laws for motorcycles to make them more noticeable. And they're larger than bicycles. There are many reasons that even conscientious people can miss (not see) bicycles, or misjudge their speed and distance. So, blame everybody, but in the final analysis, we have to take care of ourselves.

keyven 03-18-14 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16587726)
It's not just bicycles. Most (all?) states have full time headlights on laws for motorcycles to make them more noticeable. And they're larger than bicycles. There are many reasons that even conscientious people can miss (not see) bicycles, or misjudge their speed and distance. So, blame everybody, but in the final analysis, we have to take care of ourselves.

Agreed. Cyclists need to take FAR more responsibility for their own safety instead of demanding drivers put more effort into noticing them. There are reckless cyclists as well as reckless drivers.

It sucks that cyclists are always on the losing end if a driver is distracted or plain terrible, but bad drivers will always be out there so it's imperative cyclists practice defensive cycling all the time.

It will be too late once you end up a bloody spot on the floor, regardless of whose fault it is.

dynodonn 03-18-14 07:28 AM

What is sad to see is that a number of motorists can still drive their motor vehicles like brainless ****s with a sense of impunity, with an even larger number vulnerable road users having to use whatever skills they have to outwit them.

02Giant 03-18-14 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vandutch (Post 16571537)
Also read the comments. alot of people dont like cyclists sharing the road.
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com

I read many, that is mild compared to what is posted after a cyclist fatality around here.

Chitown_Mike 03-18-14 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBinNY (Post 16575502)
This is often called a Copenhagen Left. I don't know that it's ever required, but is often taught to children as a safer way to make a left turn. Even for experienced adults, it's sometimes plan B when traffic flow makes merging left difficult.

It's also possible that it's required at specific intersections here and there (though I don't know of any offhand). If so, there would have to be signage directing cyclists to turn this way.

Copenhagen left's are also used here and there for motor traffic, though it's done with a ramp, often called a jug handle, and might have signage saying "exit right for left turns" or similar.

Same principle, different name.


On my commute to work I sometimes opt for a Copenhagen left, or as I like to call it in my head a "Cope-y". There is a section of roadway, 2 lanes either direction, traffic light, and middle turn lane, that it can be a dangerous choice to signal and merge left to the left turn lane because of the high rates of speed people drive at. And the high school kids racing each other to school doesn't help (the school is 1/2 mile up the road). So I think better of the situation and turn right onto a industrial side road and wait for the traffic signal to go green. The minute or 2 I "lose" is worth it, especially in the summer when the railroad gates will stick down too long.

Keith99 03-18-14 04:51 PM

Here is a link with a lot more info:

Two cyclists killed in crash on Redwood Road in Lehi | The Salt Lake Tribune

A couple of the important points:

Quote:

The victims were southbound on Redwood Road and had just begun to make a left turn onto 2100 North when they were hit by the northbound pickup.

That one almost had me jumping to it was the cyclists fault, but this one changes things and implies a lot about the intersection:

Quote:

Paul said investigators are still determining who had green lights for the intersection.
The only way I can see that being an issue is if there is a dedicated left turn lane and a green arrow to go with it.


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