Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-12-14, 12:52 PM   #1
vandutch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: sl,ut
Bikes: 2013 Felt Z85
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sad!

2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com
vandutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 12:59 PM   #2
vandutch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: sl,ut
Bikes: 2013 Felt Z85
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Also read the comments. alot of people dont like cyclists sharing the road.
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com
vandutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 09:53 PM   #3
vandutch
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: sl,ut
Bikes: 2013 Felt Z85
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
FYI the guys were 35 and 39 years old.
vandutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 07:24 AM   #4
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,753
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 156 Post(s)
Yes it is sad.

Anyone in the area keep us posted as to what the driver is charged with.
rydabent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 08:13 AM   #5
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandutch View Post
Also read the comments. alot of people dont like cyclists sharing the road.
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com
....and some people really don't understand the rules of the road, especially when it comes to cyclists. Here's a comment from one person than left me rather amazed.

"Making a left turn on a bicycle requires the bicyclist to remain on the RIGHT side of the roadway, cross over to the opposite right side of the roadway turn to the left and complete the left turn all while staying on the right side of the road... The safest place to be. Never make a left turn in the left turn lane when on a bicycle on a busy road!"

dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 08:44 AM   #6
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
....and some people really don't understand the rules of the road, especially when it comes to cyclists. Here's a comment from one person than left me rather amazed.

"Making a left turn on a bicycle requires the bicyclist to remain on the RIGHT side of the roadway, cross over to the opposite right side of the roadway turn to the left and complete the left turn all while staying on the right side of the road... The safest place to be. Never make a left turn in the left turn lane when on a bicycle on a busy road!"

Not only is the comment simply wrong, it's victim blaming.

In some states, cyclists are *allowed* to, but not *required* to, make what some people call a "bicycle left turn."

Utah is one of them.

Quote:
41-6a-1108. Bicycles and mopeds -- Turns -- Designated lanes.
(1) A person riding a bicycle or moped and intending to turn left shall comply
with Section 41-6a-801 or [emphasis mine] Subsection (2).
(2) (a) A person riding a bicycle or moped intending to turn left shall approach
the turn as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.
(b) After proceeding across the intersecting roadway, to the far corner of the
curb or intersection of the roadway edges, the bicyclist or moped operator shall stop, as
far out of the way of traffic as practical.
(c) After stopping, the bicyclist or moped operator shall yield to any traffic
proceeding in either direction along the roadway he had been using.
(d) After yielding and complying with any traffic-control device or peace officer
regulating traffic, the bicyclist or moped operator may proceed in the new direction.
(3) (a) Notwithstanding Subsections (1) and (2), a highway authority in its
respective jurisdiction may place traffic-control devices that require and direct turning
bicyclists and moped operators to travel a specific course.
(b) When the devices are placed under Subsection (3)(a), a person may not turn
a bicycle other than as directed by the devices.
The investigation is on going.

So sad.


-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 05:23 PM   #7
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,958
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
...

In some states, cyclists are *allowed* to, but not *required* to, make what some people call a "bicycle left turn."
This is often called a Copenhagen Left. I don't know that it's ever required, but is often taught to children as a safer way to make a left turn. Even for experienced adults, it's sometimes plan B when traffic flow makes merging left difficult.

It's also possible that it's required at specific intersections here and there (though I don't know of any offhand). If so, there would have to be signage directing cyclists to turn this way.

Copenhagen left's are also used here and there for motor traffic, though it's done with a ramp, often called a jug handle, and might have signage saying "exit right for left turns" or similar.

Same principle, different name.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

Last edited by FBinNY; 03-13-14 at 05:31 PM.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 05:50 PM   #8
3alarmer
Can'tre Member
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Bikes: old ones
Posts: 14,026
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 872 Post(s)
.
...there's a thread on this incident in road. It went south in a hurry.
3alarmer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 06:35 PM   #9
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,958
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...there's a thread on this incident in road. It went south in a hurry.
I agree. It's sad enough that accidents like this happen in the first place. Using them to trot out the boilerplate warnings demeans the victims.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-14, 07:11 AM   #10
spivonious
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Posts: 1,857
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The comments on the story are mostly supportive, which is good to see. We'll probably never know exactly what happened.

Lights or not, we all must remember that bicycles have a very narrow profile from head-on. Always assume the other guy doesn't see you, especially in the dark.
spivonious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-14, 08:57 AM   #11
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
There seems to be tons of advice for what cyclists need to be doing, but very little in the way being said for the many motorists who drive a bull in a china shop.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 11:14 PM   #12
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,958
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 362 Post(s)
It's not just bicycles. Most (all?) states have full time headlights on laws for motorcycles to make them more noticeable. And they're larger than bicycles. There are many reasons that even conscientious people can miss (not see) bicycles, or misjudge their speed and distance. So, blame everybody, but in the final analysis, we have to take care of ourselves.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 03:21 AM   #13
keyven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
It's not just bicycles. Most (all?) states have full time headlights on laws for motorcycles to make them more noticeable. And they're larger than bicycles. There are many reasons that even conscientious people can miss (not see) bicycles, or misjudge their speed and distance. So, blame everybody, but in the final analysis, we have to take care of ourselves.
Agreed. Cyclists need to take FAR more responsibility for their own safety instead of demanding drivers put more effort into noticing them. There are reckless cyclists as well as reckless drivers.

It sucks that cyclists are always on the losing end if a driver is distracted or plain terrible, but bad drivers will always be out there so it's imperative cyclists practice defensive cycling all the time.

It will be too late once you end up a bloody spot on the floor, regardless of whose fault it is.
keyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 07:28 AM   #14
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
What is sad to see is that a number of motorists can still drive their motor vehicles like brainless ****s with a sense of impunity, with an even larger number vulnerable road users having to use whatever skills they have to outwit them.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 08:52 AM   #15
02Giant 
Home School Valedictorian
 
02Giant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa
Bikes: 13 Orbea Orca Bronze 02 Giant Cypress 88 Mongoose ATB
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandutch View Post
Also read the comments. alot of people dont like cyclists sharing the road.
2 cyclists killed in Lehi accident | KSL.com
I read many, that is mild compared to what is posted after a cyclist fatality around here.
02Giant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 03:56 PM   #16
Chitown_Mike
That guy from the Chi
 
Chitown_Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Chicago
Bikes: 88 Trek 800 - gone to new cheeks; '14 Trek 1.2 - aka The X1 Advanced; '13 Trek 3500 Disc
Posts: 1,006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
This is often called a Copenhagen Left. I don't know that it's ever required, but is often taught to children as a safer way to make a left turn. Even for experienced adults, it's sometimes plan B when traffic flow makes merging left difficult.

It's also possible that it's required at specific intersections here and there (though I don't know of any offhand). If so, there would have to be signage directing cyclists to turn this way.

Copenhagen left's are also used here and there for motor traffic, though it's done with a ramp, often called a jug handle, and might have signage saying "exit right for left turns" or similar.

Same principle, different name.

On my commute to work I sometimes opt for a Copenhagen left, or as I like to call it in my head a "Cope-y". There is a section of roadway, 2 lanes either direction, traffic light, and middle turn lane, that it can be a dangerous choice to signal and merge left to the left turn lane because of the high rates of speed people drive at. And the high school kids racing each other to school doesn't help (the school is 1/2 mile up the road). So I think better of the situation and turn right onto a industrial side road and wait for the traffic signal to go green. The minute or 2 I "lose" is worth it, especially in the summer when the railroad gates will stick down too long.
Chitown_Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 04:51 PM   #17
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is a link with a lot more info:

Two cyclists killed in crash on Redwood Road in Lehi | The Salt Lake Tribune

A couple of the important points:

Quote:
The victims were southbound on Redwood Road and had just begun to make a left turn onto 2100 North when they were hit by the northbound pickup.
That one almost had me jumping to it was the cyclists fault, but this one changes things and implies a lot about the intersection:

Quote:
Paul said investigators are still determining who had green lights for the intersection.
The only way I can see that being an issue is if there is a dedicated left turn lane and a green arrow to go with it.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:24 PM.