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Old 03-14-14, 02:16 PM   #26
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IMO, they figured they would clip the bike if they did.
So the motorist couldn't slow down and treat the cyclist as a fellow road user and just merge in behind?
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Old 03-14-14, 02:19 PM   #27
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Of course the motorist could have done that, and both by law and by common courtesy should have done that. the debated item here is how big of deal was it?
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Old 03-14-14, 02:30 PM   #28
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So the motorist couldn't slow down and treat the cyclist as a fellow road user and just merge in behind?
Could have and should have.

I believe they knew they were cutting it close and maybe even misjudged the speed of the bike after they committed to the move. Once there the driver wasn't about to be inconvenienced.
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Old 03-14-14, 02:39 PM   #29
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Of course the motorist could have done that, and both by law and by common courtesy should have done that. the debated item here is how big of deal was it?
Not that big of a deal, if you consider jerk moves by motorists all the norm...

But if you are looking to be "treated as the driver of a vehicle..." well then, it rather sucks.
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Old 03-14-14, 02:47 PM   #30
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I have never believed that there is a snowball chance in hell of getting all motorists to treat bicyclists as vehicles. Also, I have had similar moves pulled on me when I am driving, so its not simply bulling cyclists, some people are simply jerks, to all other road users.
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Old 03-14-14, 03:05 PM   #31
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Not that big of a deal, if you consider jerk moves by motorists all the norm...

But if you are looking to be "treated as the driver of a vehicle..." well then, it rather sucks.
And what would you consider the 'driver of a vehicle' who pulled into an oncoming lane well before it became a both-sides turn lane, crossing the double-yellow, then drove past the left turn he was (apparently) aiming for?
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Old 03-14-14, 03:23 PM   #32
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Not that big of a deal, if you consider jerk moves by motorists all the norm...

But if you are looking to be "treated as the driver of a vehicle..." well then, it rather sucks.
How would you feel about the event if the roles were reversed?

It seems to me no matter how you play it, neither made the best choices, but it also seems neither acted with premeditated malice, so really its just a learning experience that hopefully both will remember.
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Old 03-14-14, 03:42 PM   #33
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And what would you consider the 'driver of a vehicle' who pulled into an oncoming lane well before it became a both-sides turn lane, crossing the double-yellow, then drove past the left turn he was (apparently) aiming for?
Not a safety hazard.

Turning from the wrong lane I consider a safety hazard... especially if the cyclist was going to the right hand side of the lane he turned into.
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Old 03-14-14, 03:46 PM   #34
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How would you feel about the event if the roles were reversed?

It seems to me no matter how you play it, neither made the best choices, but it also seems neither acted with premeditated malice, so really its just a learning experience that hopefully both will remember.
If the roles were reversed and the cyclist turned left from the far right lane, I consider the cyclist an idiot. (and I have told cyclists that have make left turns from right hand bike lanes just that... while I as a cyclist turned left from the left turn lane at the same intersection... )

Destination positioning implies intent. Kudos to the motorist for at least using a turn signal.
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Old 03-14-14, 03:48 PM   #35
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I love it how so many of you consider it "no harm no foul" since the cyclist was not injured in any way... so does that mean close passing within inches is OK, or motorists running stop signs and red lights is OK, as long as no one was injured?
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Old 03-14-14, 04:01 PM   #36
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Look at the video again, genec, that car did not "pass within inches, depending on how many inches you mean. I'd guess it was more than 24". It just was not an eminent threat situation.
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Old 03-14-14, 04:08 PM   #37
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If the roles were reversed and the cyclist turned left from the far right lane, I consider the cyclist an idiot. (and I have told cyclists that have make left turns from right hand bike lanes just that... while I as a cyclist turned left from the left turn lane at the same intersection... )

Destination positioning implies intent. Kudos to the motorist for at least using a turn signal.
Agreed the last minute turn is not a good move, but if you were following the van and it did as the cyclist did, are you certain you would have come to the correct conclusion? I admit I have made errors in judgment in regards to erratic use of signals or positioning.

Going by proper lane discipline, I would have expected them to make the first left on that block, not the last at the intersection.
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Old 03-14-14, 04:57 PM   #38
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I love it how so many of you consider it "no harm no foul" since the cyclist was not injured in any way... so does that mean close passing within inches is OK, or motorists running stop signs and red lights is OK, as long as no one was injured?
Srsly.

Shoot a gun and no-one gets hit,go to jail on multiple felony counts. Pull a dangerous maneuver in traffic and don't hit anything,no harm no foul.
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Old 03-14-14, 05:29 PM   #39
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Srsly.

Shoot a gun and no-one gets hit,go to jail on multiple felony counts. Pull a dangerous maneuver in traffic and don't hit anything,no harm no foul.
So , your proposal is that traffic violations should be treated the same as gun violations. Yea, good luck with that one.
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Old 03-14-14, 08:24 PM   #40
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Seems to me many drivers have difficulty estimating speed of bicycle, especially if the bike is going more than 10-12 mph (they probably think that's as fast as any cyclist could possibly go). So they make errors like this. Anytime I'm going 20+ I use more vigilance for MVs being surprised.

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Old 03-14-14, 08:38 PM   #41
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@Matariki He cut you off but didnt hook you. Had he it would have been a left hook. I know this is frustrating because it happens a fair bit to me. What kind of camera do you have?
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Old 03-17-14, 05:49 PM   #42
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That's a bit heinous. Not that it's an excuse, but you did likely travel in excess of the legal distance in the central turning lane. Just sayin'...
To all those that commented about my entering the middle lane early: You are absolutely right that this is not "correct"; however having traveled this route daily for years I can say that this practice is most comfortable for me. I think it signals my intent nicely and so I avoid a train of 10-15 cars attempting to pass me on the left and thus preventing me from turning. I used to do it correctly, but found it too harrowing. Most of the cars go straight at the point where I turn, so I see it as getting out of their way.

Yes, perhaps some motorists would think that my intent was to turn at the left before the light, but when I'm 3-4 mph over the speed limit, they have no reason to pass me anyhow so what difference is it to them.

The incident was not frightening, just disturbing. I knew the van was passing me on the right and thought he/she would go straight like most others. I had already committed to turning when he pulled his move and so, although I did not expect it, it was not all that close.

Thanks for the comments. I always appreciate the opportunity to reflect on my traffic strategies.

BTW: Camera is a cheap 808 Jumbo from China.

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Old 03-17-14, 06:27 PM   #43
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Just curious, do you signal your intent?
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Old 03-19-14, 10:30 AM   #44
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Just curious, do you signal your intent?
Yep, immediately after entering the intersection because I have had some motorists attempt to pass me on the left at that point. I want to let them know that I am getting out of their way so they can continue on straight at whatever speed they want. In practice, this seems to work because many who seem to start the pass will drop back in lane as soon as they see my signal. I don't move into the left lane until I am sure that they respond to my signal.

In general, although there is an aggravating but traditional disregard for certain traffic laws in this area, I don't find motorists all that aggressive or obnoxious. Yes- they will make assumptions about how fast a cyclist is going or what he/she will do. But after giving them a clear, unambiguous sign of your intent they usually react in a positive way that indicates some partnership.
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Old 03-19-14, 12:39 PM   #45
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To all those that commented about my entering the middle lane early: ....
As you may remember, I'm not overly sympathetic, since I think that though the driver was rude, there wasn't a serious "hook" involved.

OTOH, I agree with you that moving into the "suicide" lane early makes sense. Where there's fairly heavy or regular traffic, it can be hard for a cyclist to find a break long enough to make the left lane change safely. Therefore you make it at the first reasonable opportunity, lest the flow of traffic prevents it until past the corner.

This isn't unreasonable unless an opposing direction car needs to make a left mid block, then it's a game of chicken. But that's not the case here. By riding in the turn lane you're signaling your intent to turn, and in some states it would be illegal to go straight. Reasonable left turning drivers will drop in behind you, which isn't a big imposition for 1/2 a block. Impatient ones will drive past on your right and sweep around as this one did. That's life.

But having someone pass on the right and sweep past on a turn is far preferable than being trapped on the right of the straight lane, or having cars use the turn lane as a passing lane as you approach the corner.

My advice is to continue to ride as you are, and be more ready to expect the occasional rude driver.

BTW- on heavily traveled roads I approach lefts, crowding the center line. This way I'm 100% sure that nobody going straight will pass on my left, and that all cars will be to my right including those turning. I take the turn narrow, centerline to centerline, then merge back to the right after completing the turn when the first opportunity arises. This can cause cars to pass to my right during or after the turn, as if we were on roads with 2 left turn lanes, but it's very workable and has never caused an issue. Most of the time drivers turning behind me, slow and create an opportunity for me to move to the right in front of them. As rushed and impatient we are here in NY, most drivers are actually very courteous and willing to share roads with those who also share.
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Old 03-19-14, 01:26 PM   #46
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I take the lane at the light, then quickly move to the left lane because I am turning left and if I don't move over early, I have to deal with cars passing on my left. So going downhill at slightly above the speed limit (25 mph) thinking that the van passing me on the right is going straight, and then ...

That wasn't a 'hook'. But as others have mentioned already, that it was a motorist that had the 'I am bigger and faster so I go first', attitude from the motorist.
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Old 04-10-14, 01:58 AM   #47
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That wasn't a 'hook'. But as others have mentioned already, that it was a motorist that had the 'I am bigger and faster so I go first', attitude from the motorist.
It's funny that the cyclist is allowed to justify his illegal actions, while the nameless driver - who did allow some room for error - is automatically assumed to be filled with selfish/evil/hateful intentions.

Roadway racism at its finest.

Everyone who has ever driven a vehicle must be an ass and a moron. Ex-drivers included.
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Old 04-10-14, 03:04 AM   #48
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It's funny that the cyclist is allowed to justify his illegal actions, while the nameless driver - who did allow some room for error - is automatically assumed to be filled with selfish/evil/hateful intentions.

Roadway racism at its finest.

Everyone who has ever driven a vehicle must be an ass and a moron. Ex-drivers included.
It was an illegal turn by the motorist. No one had to assume anything when the motorist was willing to demonstrate on video.
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Old 04-10-14, 03:30 AM   #49
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It was an illegal turn by the motorist. No one had to assume anything when the motorist was willing to demonstrate on video.
Oh look, an unreasonable overreaction.

I guess you're just a fatalist.
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Old 04-10-14, 07:59 AM   #50
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Oh look, an unreasonable overreaction.

I guess you're just a fatalist.
Yet, you are the one throwing these odd claims of racism out.
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