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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Contrary to the pathetic whining on this page about anyone who dares to challenge autocentrism, I'm not against low occupancy vehicles. I am against the negative environmental, social, and economic impact of low occupancy motoring. And I'm not going to sugar coat these negative impacts. What is really galling is that all of these issues are addressable *NOW* (via a mix of approaches).
    It seems all that you object to is being addressed, just not as fast as you desire. Its also open to question the scale and urgency some believe it to be.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    It seems all that you object to is being addressed, just not as fast as you desire. Its also open to question the scale and urgency some believe it to be.
    Could you please provide some specific examples. (I personally see very little evidence of urgency in the USA.)
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Could you please provide some specific examples. (I personally see very little evidence of urgency in the USA.)
    What I'm saying is I'm not convinced any of the theories are beyond question or to be taken as gospel. Folks on both sides have a vested interest in what they believe, or in other words, the wisest answers most likely fall between status quo and chicken little.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    What I'm saying is I'm not convinced any of the theories are beyond question or to be taken as gospel. Folks on both sides have a vested interest in what they believe, or in other words, the wisest answers most likely fall between status quo and chicken little.
    The status quo in the USA is an outlier in comparison northern europe. And despite this gross violation of the "status quo" the sky did not fall in Germany or the Netherlands....
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    The status quo in the USA is an outlier in comparison northern europe. And despite this gross violation of the "status quo" the sky did not fall in Germany or the Netherlands....
    When things are presented as being black and white, all answers no questions, it starts to sound more like religion than science.
    That worries me.

  6. #81
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    And so what if the US status quo is different than that of northern Europe. US runs the way the majority of its citizens desire, Europe does the same.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    US runs the way the majority of its citizens desire, Europe does the same.
    Do you really want me to post a very long list of things that the majority of US citizens support that are not the way the US runs?

    Even in Portland the will of the people is largely ignored because our politicians are too busy with "business stakeholders":

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9si...SdDlZd09n/edit
    Last edited by CbadRider; 03-18-14 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Deleted political and crude comments
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  8. #83
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Ya mean like autocentric transportation design, rather than some other design to suit the whims of a small percentage of the population? In reality, We could post and cross post list of things that are done as the majority like and dislike, but thats a total waste of time. The reality is that you spare wheel, feel like the use of low occupancy automobile represents the greatest current threat to mans survival and want immediate action. Most of the US population disagrees and since they control indirectly through their elected representatives, change at your desired pace is not gonna happen.
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  9. #84
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    the use of low occupancy automobile represents the greatest current threat to mans survival and want immediate action
    nice try. but...no.

    Most of the US population disagrees
    disagrees with what exactly? do you have some links to polls on specific issues and topics?

    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    ...they control indirectly through their elected representatives
    i think when it comes to transportation issues our lobbying corporate citizens exercise far more control than voting citizens.


    change at your desired pace is not gonna happen
    which is exactly why i like to highlight some reasons for change. that and fighting the good fight against the autocentric illuminati global conspiracy.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    That worries me.
    Overton windows tend to be quite opaque.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  11. #86
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    i think when it comes to transportation issues our lobbying corporate citizens exercise far more control than voting citizens.
    Which is why in my neck of the woods they keep ignoring road infrastructure and dumping millions into mass transit that no one uses. Almost as if they hope the roads fall apart and become so much of a pain to use that people start using their mass transit.

  12. #87
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Spare_wheel,
    I base my opinion of your postion on single occupancy motor vehicle use on quotes like:

    "i think some ranting and rhetoric is justified by a practice that unnecessarily spews enormous amount of toxins, carcinogens, and teratogens into the atmosphere we all breathe, that kills ~1.2 million people each year (according to WHO estimates), and is a major contributor to the ongoing mass extinction associated with anthropogenic climate change"

    As far as the other stuff, no survey data, just my opinions base on casual conversation on what people seem to want/like/believe. So like most things on internet forum, you are totally free to discard.

    I agree our system is corrupted by special interest lobbying, but I probably don't think its as corrupted as you do, fair enough.

    And yep, you should fight the good fight for what you believe, but don't be surprised when others do not agree.

    Any what the majority of people disagree with, is the urgency and availabilty of suitable and affordable solution to single motorist car use, NOW in your words. I base this opinion on the relative slow pace of conversion to the unnamed solutions that you speculated on.
    Last edited by howsteepisit; 03-18-14 at 02:45 PM. Reason: DUMB BUTT MISTAKE
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  13. #88
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    You bring up plausible ideas such as Overton and corporate lobbyists, then you go way out on a limb right to the bitter end with,
    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    that and fighting the good fight against the autocentric illuminati global conspiracy.
    And along with that you present it all with a stance that leaves no room for question or compromise, attacking any who disagree at all. Its almost like you want to alienate as many people as you can.

    It makes no sense.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    You bring up plausible ideas such as Overton and corporate lobbyists, then you go way out on a limb right to the bitter end with,


    And along with that you present it all with a stance that leaves no room for question or compromise, attacking any who disagree at all. Its almost like you want to alienate as many people as you can.

    It makes no sense.
    that was sarcasm, kickstart.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    on the relative slow pace of conversion
    to be honest, the pace of "conversion" is more rapid that i expected. in particular, the sharp drop in driving and interest in car ownership among the younger demographic is quite striking.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    to be honest, the pace of "conversion" is more rapid that i expected. in particular, the sharp drop in driving and interest in car ownership among the younger demographic is quite striking.
    Let's hope people start taking to bikes or other modes of transport over padding the already overcrowded roads.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    to be honest, the pace of "conversion" is more rapid that i expected. in particular, the sharp drop in driving and interest in car ownership among the younger demographic is quite striking.
    That's true, but the reason apparently is because of their addiction to electronic devices, and the desire to always have the latest and greatest at any cost. This has its health and environmental costs too.

    There is no "free" ride.

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