Originally Posted by keyven

I suggest you use your amazing x-ray vision which can see through houses and trees and fences and large vehicles for the greater good of mankind instead of for hurtling down the street.

Originally Posted by kickstart

From New york state law article 25,

S 1122. Overtaking a vehicle on the left. The following rules shall govern the overtaking and passing of vehicles proceeding in the same direction, subject to those limitations, exceptions, and special rules hereinafter stated: (a) The driver of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left thereof at a safe distance and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle. (b) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle shall give way to the right in favor of the overtaking vehicle on audible signal and shall not increase the speed of his vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle.

The legal definition of "give way" To is to slow down or stop if necessary to avoid a collision and to wait until it is safe to proceed.
"Give way" and yield are interchangeable having the same meaning, regardless of which a state chooses to use, it doesn't change the intent of the law.

[TABLE]
[TR="class: recommended"]
[TD="colspan: 3"]Traffic Law Violations for Article 25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: recommend_title"]
[TH]Section[/TH]
[TH]Sub[/TH]
[TH]Description of Violation[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1120[/TD]
[TD](a)[/TD]
[TD]Failed to keep right [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1120[/TD]
[TD](b) [/TD]
[TD]Failed to keep right (slow moving vehicle) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1121[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Failed to yield one-half roadway [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1122[/TD]
[TD](a)[/TD]
[TD]Passed vehicle on right [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1122
[/TD]
[TD](b)[/TD]
[TD]Failed to give way when being passed
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1123[/TD]
[TD](b)[/TD]
[TD]Left pavement to pass on right [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1124[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]While passing on left, interfered with safe operation of oncoming vehicle [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1126[/TD]
[TD](a) [/TD]
[TD]Drove left of pavement markings [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1127[/TD]
[TD](a)[/TD]
[TD]Wrong way on one-way street [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1128[/TD]
[TD] (a)[/TD]
[TD]Moved from lane unsafely [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1128[/TD]
[TD](c)[/TD]
[TD]Failed to use designated lane [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1128[/TD]
[TD](d) [/TD]
[TD]Drove across hazardous markings [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1129[/TD]
[TD](a)[/TD]
[TD]Following too closely [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1129[/TD]
[TD](b)[/TD]
[TD]Failed to leave sufficient space [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1129[/TD]
[TD] (c)[/TD]
[TD]Failed to leave sufficient space (motorcade, except funerals) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1130[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Drove across mall/median [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]
[TD]1130[/TD]
[TD] 2[/TD]
[TD]Unauthorized. entry/exit controlled access highway [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1131[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]Drive on shoulder [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Originally Posted by CB HI

No matter how hard you keep trying to be right, give way does not equal yield under traffic law.

Here are the places the NY traffic law uses the word yield and none apply to the vehicle being passed:
New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law Search Results

Originally Posted by John Forester

All this fussing about the meaning of "give way to the right" (as by kickstart) is nothing but foolish wordplay. The wording of the law regarding the behavior of the driver being overtaken goes back to the days of unlaned roads. It has no specific meaning in the world of laned roads, which by far carry the greatest amount of traffic. On a laned roadway, the slower driver is required, and therefore is allowed, to use the right-hand lane for traffic. There is no reasonable way for such a driver to "give way to the right" when a driver who wishes to overtake comes up behind. Of course, if the slower driver is not in the right-hand lane for traffic, and is not overtaking still slower traffic, then he is both disobeying the law and has room to move into the right-hand lane for traffic.

Originally Posted by kickstart

So you too believe its OK to endanger others by preventing the completion of a pass by action or inaction if circumstances dictate otherwise? I don't need definitions or laws to know that's wrong.

Originally Posted by koolerb

i have a few sections of local road road where I can maintain 30 in the 30 mph zone for a mile or so, and yeah, people feel like they have to try and pass me. So they end up passing way close, and slowly which makes it even more stressful. There's definitely some kind of weird psychology at work between drivers and cyclists.

Originally Posted by John Forester

Oh, my, you do have a propensity for ill-considered nastiness, don't you? There's nothing in what I wrote that can be construed according to your accusation. The statute regarding overtaking describes normal operation, as do all the other rules of the road. What to do in situations when someone else endangers everybody by violating the rules of the road is another matter. The action to be taken needs to be based on preventing a collision if that is possible, but the situations are so diverse that no other recommendation is possible.

Originally Posted by kickstart

The law says, depending on the state, that one must give way to the right or yield to passing vehicles, and it is a coded violation to fail to yield to a passing vehicle, CB HI took exception with that and your previous post seems to back his opinion.

Originally Posted by CB HI

Still waiting for you to link an actual passing law that uses the word yield. Why do you insist on misusing a well defined traffic code word.

Yield does not = give way under traffic law.

Originally Posted by kickstart

Earlier someone gave an example of the traffic law from Maryland and I provided examples of law and violation code that you rejected. The recognized actions that yield and give way require are the same, but I can't find any reference that specifically spells out any difference between the two, can you?


Lacking any evidence to the contrary, it seems the reason most states use give way rather than yield is because we use yield on traffic control signage for intersections. Its interesting to note that countries that use give way on their signage, use yield in their written law, the exact opposite.

Either way, I can't see how it would exempt us from our obligations to maintain safety when being over taken. Can you show what law would?

Originally Posted by kickstart

The law says, depending on the state, that one must give way to the right or yield to passing vehicles, and it is a coded violation to fail to yield to a passing vehicle, CB HI took exception with that and your previous post seems to back his opinion.

Originally Posted by John Forester

You appear to be telling us that when one driver overtakes another by using the next adjacent lane, it is a violation for the slower driver to fail to do something or other of the type of lateral movement? Don't be so silly.

Originally Posted by kickstart

*New Jersey, 39:4–87 Failure to yield to overtaking vehicle
*Oregon, 811-425 Failure of slower driver to yield to overtaking vehicle
*Connecticut, Improper passing or failure to yield to a passing vehicle

Originally Posted by CB HI

Seems dishonest that you are not accurately quoting the laws you list:


Oregon 811-425 Slow moving vehicle law requiring turnout, not a passing law!

Originally Posted by kickstart

I did state "several variations and requirements", The point being, there are indeed obligations for a vehicle being overtaken under certain conditions.

Originally Posted by kickstart

I did state "several variations and requirements", The point being, there are indeed obligations for a vehicle being overtaken under certain conditions.

It would be nice if the law defined when an overtaking vehicle becomes the lead vehicle with the right of way over the overtaken vehicle, then there would be no room for variations in interpretation.

Originally Posted by John Forester

The overtaking driver obviously has to yield to the driver being overtaken until he is so far ahead that he may safely and lawfully return to his original lane position. Only after he has done that has he gained the right of way that pertains to a leading vehicle.

Originally Posted by RPK79

I cited the link and the direct quote which was:

https://www.mva.maryland.gov/_resources/docs/DL-002.pdf

When being passed by another vehicle, you must
yield to the other vehicle and not increase your
speed.

Pretty sure that implies that they have the right of way. At least in MD. I'm not going to look up every state for you.

If the other vehicle is completing a legal pass then you are going below the speed limit since you are not allowed to exceed to speed limit to complete a pass. I'm only discussing right of way in regards to all drivers obeying the law.

Originally Posted by kickstart

Don't be so obtuse,

The violation of failure to yield/give way to a passing vehicle*. Not giving way/ yielding is speeding up or pacing the overtaking vehicle, failing to back off or clear the road off if necessary to allow the overtaking vehicle to complete the pass safely if circumstances dictate it.

Even without the laws, this is a basic rules of the road, common sense concept.


*Maryland, TR 21-303 – Improper passing/failure to permit vehicle to pass
to name a few, with several variation and requirements.

If you know of anything that contradicts this concept from an official source, I would like to see it



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[h=1][/h]

Originally Posted by Chris516

If I am on a four-lane road TR-21-303 is not a problem. They just have to get in the passing lane. If I am on a two-lane road, it is a problem. On a two-lane road, I am not stopping a vehicle from passing. I am stopping a vehicle from running me off the road by trying to pass in the same lane. Share the road, and share the lane are, not only entirely different. Lane width is not always the same. Therefore, I will 'take the lane'.

Originally Posted by kickstart

Don't let the misrepresentations of the freak show throw you. Taking the lane to remove the temptation of a dangerous pass is reasonable and lawful, but if someone goes for it anyway and your actions or inaction would cause danger to yourself or others then it is wrong.

No law obligates us to cause harm to ourselves or others, no law allows us to cause harm to ourselves or others.

Originally Posted by Cyclosaurus

Are you saying that if a cyclist is legally using the lane, and there is no safe way for a driver to pass, but they try to do it anyway and crash into the cyclist, the cyclist is "wrong"?

Do you also believe that women who are ***** were "askin' for it" if they were wearing short skirts at the time?