keyven

Would it be safe to assume most cyclists have driven cars before, while most motorists have never commuted by bike?

By that token, most cyclists would be more familiar with the mentality of a driver, but most drivers won't have the same amount of insight ofcyclists.

I believe there's definitely a gulf in perceptions between cyclists and drivers, mostly because your generic driver wouldn't have experienced the sensation of vulnerability when a car zooms close to them, or slams their brake inches from a cyclist. Even if no one gets injured, it is a harrowing experience, which no one wants to be subjected to.

Hence, it is easy for a driver to believe that passing a cyclist by a foot or two is sufficient, given that the cyclist isn't visibly injured. By the time the cyclist registers shock or distress, the vehicle may be long gone.

Education may teach drivers to be more careful, but nothing beats real-world experience when it comes to actually feeling such vulnerability in an environment packed with motorized weapons.

rydabent

+1

genec

The best combination of education and real world experience would be a system that requires experience on a bicycle before obtaining a drivers license.

Imagine if "road use" were taught at public schools as the "Fourth R," as important as the other the 3 R's; after all, road use IS a lifelong activity. In elementary school, the lessons could focus on basic bike use and basic "rules of the road." In early middle school, the lessons could focus on road use, and rights of cyclists and bike commuting, and finally in high school, an emphasis on laws and ethics of road use, while leading to the use of the automobile and proper driving lessons. Cycling would be a prerequisite to driving. Learning to drive would be more than the 40 hour rushed program it often is today, and the students would have learned to "Share the Road" before becoming motorists.

I understand this is somewhat how things are done in Copenhagen.

Often in the US however, bikes are treated as toys, children are chauffeured to schools from a young age, and the granting of a driver's license, after a few short hours of lessons, is treated as a right of passage...

dynodonn 

I took care of that **** by mounting a couple of compact high resolution video cameras on my bike, and one motorist got his ass documented with local law enforcement when he decided to "teach me a lesson" with a 3 inch pass at a 40 mph speed "differential".

Looigi

Agree. Indoctrinate them from an early age. Education and continuing awareness programs (TV and radio spots, billboards, etc.) are sorely neglected and would be a better universally beneficial expenditure of limited advocacy resources than another mile or two of mup or bike lane.

Looigi

What specifically did law enforcement do as a result and what effect will it have?

Dave Cutter

Actually... if you remove the cyclist/motorist differences I think there is quite a bit written about this. Amusement parks have capitalized on the scare that can be created using mechanical power.... like roller coasters. Rides that offer height or disorientation (like turning upside down) adds an extra thrill.

Vulnerability... isn't a sensation... it's a reality. The sensation you're feeling is called fear. Humans experience a reaction to fear called "fight or flight". The fight or flight response is universal to all humans whether they drive, cycle, do neither or both. Any "gulf in perceptions" does not exist. I'd suggest that maybe you need to better familiarize yourself with your own feelings.

Once you realize and accept that your agitation is a result of you own normal emotional response (the fight or flight response) and not externally caused by motorist. You might be able to realize that you actually have control over those feelings. People discard the normal fear during amusement park rides everyday.... and just enjoy the "thrill".

Look at these cyclist... having a GREAT time:

dynodonn 

The motorist is documented in the local law enforcement's data base, if the motorist has an established pattern of poor or dangerous driving, then law enforcement may take action if they choose to do so. If the motorist does not have pattern of poor or dangerous driving, then at least they are documented in the data base in case of future incidents of reported poor or dangerous driving being done by this individual.

kickstart

The general lack of training and education is is the issue.

A large percentage of road users, cyclists included, clearly don't understand their duties or obligations, and have no appreciation for the needs and limitations of various types of vehicles.
It amazes me that even something simple like "move right for sirens and lights" can be so confusing.

dynodonn 

Maybe in your locale, but in my locale and from my observations, motorists at least get that part.

-=(8)=-

So, in short. Nothing


Anything mentioned is opinion only. There is a whole generation or two that have to transition into their no-driving period before any change of attitude might happen in the USA. We deify cars, car ownership is part of what defines us, that isnt going to change any time soon

kickstart

Most do, but a few don't.

It's those few who are causing most of the issues.

dynodonn 

Wrong, the motorist was, at the very least, documented, which is far better than my doing "nothing".

Myosmith

Does the motorist even know he/she has been "documented"? How many times does a motorist need to be documented before there is an actual consequence?

There are numerous drivers on the road today who have had multiple DUIs, moving violations, tickets, court appearances, thousands of $$$ in fines, accidents, lost jobs, had their licenses suspended or revoked, even spent time in jail, yet they continue to drive (possibly still intoxicated) on a regular basis. What makes you think that "documenting" a near miss is going to have any effect on this driver's behavior?

dynodonn 

Our local law enforcement has an aggressive driving phone number in place, and with our collision rates ranking somewhere between #1 and #2 , for a city of our population, our law enforcement takes these incidents rather seriously. Ever since I started videoing my commutes, and having better information to make a more detailed report, the number of intentional close passes and harassment towards me has diminished.

Chris516

I don't think you are generalizing.

B. Carfree

This seems to be a Pacific Northwest-specific fail. I've never seen so many motorists who ignore or respond incorrectly to lights and sirens as in the PNW. It's so bad locally that the firefighters' union is opposing a stretch of road diet because they fear they will have trouble getting through a few blocks of bike lanes each way, one travel lane each way and a two-way left turn lane in the center.

On a side note, that opposition on the part of the firefighters may cost them jobs. It is difficult to get tax bonds passed here, and alienating ten percent of the population isn't a great way to go about passing a bond when you need it, and they do need one passed.

Myosmith

I applaud the efforts of your law enforcement and honestly hope your efforts are not in vain. Too bad it isn't that way everywhere.

Fahrenheit531 

Probably not the most popular position put forth in this thread, but worth thinking about.
...and that video is NUTS.

Dave Cutter

Yes it is! I could never ride that course as they do.

We all have our own natural limits with different dangers. It would be reasonable to believe that some of those cyclists have other fear triggers. Maybe they would be petrified to speak to/in front of a group. Or terrified of heights, rats, snakes, clowns... you get the picture. They do seem to have completely adapted to cycling. Not everyone however can do that. Cycling isn't for everyone.

genec

FIFY

The fact is, as you point out, the implied danger is from the other moving vehicles. Put cyclists in an area where there are no large fast moving heavy objects around, and I think you might find that more people will cycle quite comfortably. You can see just this phenomena in parks across any city on weekends.

Dave Cutter

True... to some extent. I know one young lady who feels "unsafe" on tires skinnier than a mountain bikes. Like the fear of cycling in traffic... this is fear for the sake of fear. Sure you can put the world on fat tires. And then build separated cycling spaces. Then what... chest mounted air bags?

Fear is not a static target. No one has ever engineered a solution around fear. If cycling fears could be resolved with better equipment and/or ideas.... todays cycling helmets would have prevented this thread. Fear is part of the human experience and must be recognized for what it is. Then faced and conquered by the individual.

genec

Interesting that you chose helmets as your "indicator" of better equipment ... especially in light of the fact that in places where cycling modal share is highest, they tend to not wear helmets at all. Oh and they have no need for chest mounted air bags either.

Dave Cutter

Interesting maybe... but not surprising.

Among many that practice superstitious acts.... they re-act to feelings. Somehow some people equate a "feeling" with actual situations. If they "feel safe" they take that to mean they are safe. Likewise if they experience fear during a certain event they assign that event as "being dangerous". Hence... two cyclists sharing the very same traffic on the very same road/street can interrupt two completely different assessments of the safety.

I should have maybe kept that under wraps until after I applied for the patent.

keyven

My dad has never been faulted for a serious accident before (for over 40 years) but one night he just drove through the middle of a red light. If a cyclist had been going across without paying the slightest heed in the world (because he had the right of way), he would have been run over. Just ZERO chance to react or protect himself.

Yet to be fair, the needless amount of energy expended may not be quite worth the extra sliver of safety you get. Even extra precautions does not guarantee safety, while it guarantees you will be slowed down and a little more stressed.