John Forester

The wordings of the laws prohibiting motor vehicle racing have many variations in the attempt to outwit the lawless motor-racing contingent. As in the one quoted above, this is also the victim of the false assumption that "vehicle" equals "motor vehicle", which occurs in quite a few statutes. There is also the problem created by whether or not that particular state code defines bicycles as vehicles, in which case cycling would be relevant, or as devices, in which case cycling is not considered by this law. And even if these are resolved so that cycling is included in the statute, then, as I have written for decades, every cyclist who is riding hard in order to get to work on time is violating this statute. The problems caused by the difference between the intent of this law and its wording are so intense that I see no point in bothering ourselves about it unless some benighted official starts prosecuting cyclists under this law.

John Forester

The many variations of this law result from both systemic errors in statutory drafting and from attempts to outwit the lawless motor-racing contingent. The intent is to prohibit racing of motor vehicles, but it only refers to vehicles. This is a common error in statutory drafting. Whether this statute applies to cycling depend on whether that state defines bicycles as vehicles. If it does, the statute applies; if it doesn't, the statute doesn't apply. Then look at all the types of operation outlawed. As I have written for decades, a cyclist riding hard to get to work on time is violating the statute. The problems of this statute are so intense that I see no point in cyclists bothering about it unless some misguided official tries to prosecute cyclists under it.

CB HI

Not the same type of law and quite different than what is being claimed by achoo.

I and many cyclist would be extremely happy if the bicycle FRAP law only required using the right lane on multi-lane highways.

noisebeam

Several other AZ traffic laws (such as following to closely) specifically refer to 'motor vehicles' and therefore are not applicable to bicycle drivers.

Specific to Arizona 28-812:
It appears from this the no racing law would apply to bicycle drivers even though bicycles are not defined as vehicle in AZ, but as devices as this no racing law also says 'a person .... shall not participate in any manner...'

However I also wonder if that was the intent of the law or merely a product of cobbled legislation. I am also not concerned about it. I ride as appropriate and safe for conditions and follow speed limit signs (i.e. 15mph in school zones.) Sometime this means riding hard, sometimes not. My intent is to be efficient in transport from place to place and adjusting speed to better integrate with flow of traffic. Any times over distance that are recorded are a result of that but not the intent.

mconlonx

Regarding the regular riding group which caused a ruckus local to me in NH:

265:143 Application of Motor Vehicle Laws to Bicycles. –
I. Every person propelling a vehicle by human power or riding a bicycle shall have all of the rights and be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under the rules of the road, except as provided in paragraph II and as to special regulations in this subdivision and except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application.

265:25 Following Too Closely. –
I. The driver of a vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of such vehicles and the traffic upon and the condition of the way.
III. Vehicles being driven upon any roadway outside of a business or residence district in a caravan or motorcade whether or not towing other vehicles shall be so driven as to allow sufficient space between each such vehicle or combination of vehicles so as to enable any other vehicle to enter and occupy such space without danger. This provision shall not apply to funeral processions.
IV. The fine for a violation of this section shall be $100.

265:75 Racing on Highways. –
I. No person shall drive any vehicle on a highway in any race, speed competition or contest, drag race or acceleration contest, test of physical endurance, exhibition of speed or acceleration, or for the purpose of making a speed record; and no person shall in any manner participate in any such race, competition, contest, test or exhibition.
II. The driving of 2 or more vehicles from a point side-by-side at accelerating speeds in a competitive attempt to outdistance each other, or the driving of one or more vehicles over a common selected course, where the starting and finishing points are the same, for the purpose of comparing the relative speeds or power of acceleration of such vehicle or vehicles within a certain distance or time limit on a highway is prohibited.
III. The use of one or more vehicles in an attempt to outgain, outdistance, or prevent another vehicle from passing, to arrive at a given destination ahead of another vehicle or vehicles, or to test the physical stamina or endurance of drivers over long distance driving routes on a highway is prohibited.
IV. Any person convicted of violating this section shall be guilty of a violation.

265:78 Competitive Bicycle or Moped Races. – No person shall conduct or participate in any competitive bicycle or moped race on any class I, class III, or class III-a highway or on the state-maintained part of any class II highway, unless such race is sponsored by a recognized bicycle or moped organization and the sponsor of such race has obtained, prior to such race, the written approval of the commissioner and of the police department of each city, town or place in which such race is to be held. In the case of a competitive bicycle or moped race on a class III-a highway, the sponsor of the race shall also obtain the approval of the executive director of the fish and game department. The commissioner and the executive director of the fish and game department may require insurance, police coverage or other regulations to insure the safety and protection of the public, and the permit may exempt competitors from such requirements of this chapter relative to rules of the road as are not inconsistent with public safety.

----------------------

Bicycle described as a vehicle; laws regarding following too close and competitive riding on the road reference vehicles, not motor vehicles.

I'll not comment on laws in other states, which I am not familiar with, but it seems pretty cut and dry in NH -- bicycles treated as vehicles, vehicles prohibited from competitive racing on the streets. I don't know if the cops just don't want this tried in court, are ignorant of these laws, or have been told they are not applicable by legal counsel, but this particular group of riders in NH were never cited for anything. If they are complained about this season, it will be interesting to see what local LE does about it...

John Forester

On what grounds would the prosecutor present his case if he decided to prosecute under the racing law? Is that group producing a speed record, race, competition, contest, test, or exhibition, outdistances each other, comparing relative speeds or power of acceleration, or attempting to outgain, outdistance, or preventing another vehicle from passing, to get to a destination ahead of another, or testing the physical stamina or endurance of drivers over long distance driving routes? He would need to prove at least one of these requirements, and proving any one is fraught with difficulties. I would hate to have such a precedent that could then be applied to individual cyclists, as I have long written.

It appears to me that members of the group have committed several other obvious and easy to prove violations if law enforcement wanted to prosecute their behavior.

italktocats

as soon as vehicles will 'respect' that law, ill think about respecting them

till that time, ima watch out for myself and ride how i want

mconlonx

All a prosecutor would need to do is sift through public social media, subpoena private social media records, or hang out in a bar with them right after a ride...

kickstart

That's circular logic, like a snowball rolling down hill.

rydabent

Maybe we should define "racing cyclist". In our city there are a few real racing cyclist. The rest are "lets pretend" we are racing cyclist. Wearing a football jersey does not make you a foot ball player.

John Forester

What information would he obtain? What legal standing would that information have? How relevant would that information be to a potential prosecution for violating the racing statute?

caloso

How would you define it? A rider who has a current USAC or UCI license?

Dunbar

The example given - a Strava KOM - does not prove you were racing or even attempting to set a record. It could just mean you had a strong tailwind that day. It seems like it would be very hard to prove the *intent* to race on public roads based just based on Strava data alone. If you're dumb enough to post incriminating information about yourself on the internet that's a different story. Unless you hurt or kill someone I'm guessing prosecutors have better things to do with their limited resources.

Coal Buster

That prosecutor would be laughed out of court. Two guys just got indicted this week for killing a motorcyclist while racing Ferraris on the street and you expect a DA to bring the same charges against some bicycle riders. He'd be known as the biggest clown in the county.

350htrr

Really ? How about if 3, 4 10 vehicles get together and just drive... Ignoring all signs and lights? I guess numbers make right in your mind...

I-Like-To-Bike

Any rider using a recumbent must be one of those speed crazed cyclists I have been hearing so much about on BF. After weren't some speed records set on 'em?

wapiti

I am amazed by some of the responses here. If I am riding alone, I stop at stop signs, I stop at traffic lights and I signal turns.

when drivers give me the room I signal for I thank them.

i have been in group rides, and I see group rides where the group behave like children. Ignoring all traffic signs and lights, so I don't ride in groups anymore. At all.

i have been riding for over 40 years and the groups I see are getting worse in their behaviour and as much as I try to give them the benefit of the doubt, I find increasingly, I just can't.

gregf83 

You've mistaken a group ride for a race. It's clearly not by any reasonable definition. Races are different and are normally sanctioned and licensed.

mconlonx

So basically you all are proposing that there is no competition, no racing to the town line sign, nobody keeping track of time/distance in an effort to improve on times, no bragging rights about doing a local route fastest, or finishing the local route at the front of the pack. No posting of "Best time EVAR!!!" with Strava screenshot on social media. Nothing of the kind. At the local Wed night, "Hammerfest." This is what you are proposing?

A case could be made. They could certainly be legitimately ticketed or summonsed under the statute, even if it never got to court or was dismissed by a judge.

rydabent

Just because a man has a license to fish, doesnt make him a fisherman.

gregf83 

None of what you describe is a race. If you've ever been in a bike race you'd understand the difference. Evidently, law enforcement and the judicial system do as well.

italktocats

no its a snowball avoiding the hill, floating off into space

the snowball doesnt want to touch the hill, roll down it and die, so it simple does not roll down that hill as long as its a hill, when the hill becomes a flat, the snowball will feel fine..

italktocats

id be fine with that, im not that hung up on lights, it just closes the mind and stops individual thoughts

stop because the light says so, drive off when the light says so
is that safer than stopping when youre on a collision course and dont stop if youre not?

one could compare it to emergency vehicles, they run red lights all the time, but instead of doing it completely safe, they depend on external rules; forcing others to stop instead of stopping themself

keyven

Except emergency vehicles have flashing lights and a blaring siren. Cyclists don't have that advantage - at all. Unless you run red lights with those mounted on your bike

Walter S

That depends on how cautious and attentive you are. A light gives you only one thing to look at. Personally, I prefer just watching out for myself. And I would never go just because the light is green.