Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

When More Visible ≠ Safer: Target Fixation

Search
Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

When More Visible ≠ Safer: Target Fixation

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-14-14, 06:45 PM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When More Visible ≠ Safer: Target Fixation

Pretty interesting and worth the read.
When More Visible ? Safer: Target Fixation | Off The Beaten Path
mokane54 is offline  
Old 04-14-14, 06:52 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Waterloo, ON
Posts: 431

Bikes: Surly Krampus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This article definitely adds some new perspective to road safety. Not to excuse distracted, drunk, or tired driving, but there is always more to it.
El Cid is offline  
Old 04-14-14, 06:53 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Jan's got a bit of an agenda there. The article he references that reviews various studies comes to the solid conclusion that there isn't much evidence that target fixation, or the moth-effect, is playing much of a role in our CARnage.

I'll just continue to live on the edge, at least in Jan's opinion, and go big and bright at night. I suppose if others choose to go dim then I'll stand out all the more.
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 04-15-14, 08:30 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Most all the roads I ride on have no or minimal shoulders. Cars have to actively move to the left from their normal path to avoid hitting a cyclist. If they don't see a cyclist, and don't see him/her far enough in advance and realize that it is an object in their path, they'll hit the cyclist. A single unblinking light doesn't provide as much information to the driver as a combination of one or more steady and blinking lights. They main thing is to alert them early and to get them to realize and become aware of the situation so that they can react accordingly.
Looigi is offline  
Old 04-15-14, 08:45 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,851

Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree that too bright, such as a police car with all of its lights going, can be distracting and cause some target fixation. But suggesting the cyclists go without lights or with a single solid red light is lunacy. How can cars avoid what they can't see?

From my personal experience, a bright headlight, reflective vest, and ankle reflectors let cars know where you are and what you are, and most importantly gives them time to prepare their next move.
spivonious is offline  
Old 04-15-14, 05:06 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Ideas like this are at least 25 years old.

BUT the first time I heard it the fixation idea was that a single red light was the very worst thing to do.

I much prefer the reflective vest idea. What I had when I did some back to back doubles was reflective tape on the bike, including the wheels. Result I looked like a UFO.

As I see it the best thing is to create a WTF or UFO effect. Even the drunks rarely want to get probed!

EDIT: Just thought of something re drunks and stopped cop cars. The key tipoff for a drunk is weaving. There are sections of highway scores to 100s of miles long where there is nothing on the shoulder, until a car stalls and a cop stops behind them or a cop pulls someone over.

If a guy weaves enough to be on the shoulder 20% of the time is it target fixation that they hit the only thing to hit or just chance?

Last edited by Keith99; 04-15-14 at 05:09 PM.
Keith99 is offline  
Old 04-15-14, 07:44 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,143

Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I ride with a low-pointing blinking headlight that floods the front of my bike and solid red backlight.

The blinking headlight will catch the attention of motorists coming from my back without 'blinding' or 'distracting' them. The red light makes me even more obvious. I think that's all I need.
keyven is offline  
Old 04-16-14, 12:12 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,845

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2338 Post(s)
Liked 2,822 Times in 1,541 Posts
Originally Posted by keyven
I ride with a low-pointing blinking headlight that floods the front of my bike and solid red backlight.

The blinking headlight will catch the attention of motorists coming from my back without 'blinding' or 'distracting' them. The red light makes me even more obvious. I think that's all I need.
YMMV, but when I drive, my observation is a flashing red light is much more visible to me than a solid red, in all conditions. Blinding or distracting drives is not as important as being seen

I use a combo of flashing and solid at night front and back
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 04-16-14, 12:32 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,706

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5779 Post(s)
Liked 2,576 Times in 1,427 Posts
Target fixation is real, but fairly rare. Compare to the question of being seen at maximum distance by the vast majority of drivers at a distance ar enough that they have the room and time to make adjustments.

I long ago abandoned red taillights, and opt for either flashing amber, or flashing blue. Neither are approved as legal tail lights for bicycles in New York, but they stand out and get drivers attention better than red.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 04-16-14, 12:44 PM
  #10  
contiuniously variable
 
TransitBiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,280

Bikes: 2012 Breezer Uptown Infinity, Fuji Varsity

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
This has always been an issue that I've tried to mitigate. Instead of the fast flashing rear light, I set it on a slow blink. Not only does this not "draw" but it saves battery as well. Also, headlight is steady vs blinking. I use it to see, not bee seen, hard to see if illumination keeps changing. On top of that, I always look back if I see headlights, to make sure they are giving me enough space & not speeding etc.

Properly kept reflectors are also important, but you don't want to go overboard, as more of a "show" is more likely draw.

- Andy
TransitBiker is offline  
Old 04-16-14, 01:25 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by Keith99
Ideas like this are at least 25 years old.

BUT the first time I heard it the fixation idea was that a single red light was the very worst thing to do.

I much prefer the reflective vest idea. What I had when I did some back to back doubles was reflective tape on the bike, including the wheels. Result I looked like a UFO.

As I see it the best thing is to create a WTF or UFO effect. Even the drunks rarely want to get probed!

EDIT: Just thought of something re drunks and stopped cop cars. The key tipoff for a drunk is weaving. There are sections of highway scores to 100s of miles long where there is nothing on the shoulder, until a car stalls and a cop stops behind them or a cop pulls someone over.

If a guy weaves enough to be on the shoulder 20% of the time is it target fixation that they hit the only thing to hit or just chance?
My commute used to be a forty mile trip in mostly along a two-lane highway with very little traffic at the time of morning I rode (2:30-4:30 AM). There were always a couple of drunks heading in from the coast at that time. The first few times I rode in, I would get off the road but leave my lights on when these drunks appeared. Without fail, they would slow almost to a stop once they saw my kaleidoscope of bright lights. I suspect they thought they had stumbled onto something from Close Encounters. I quickly learned to douse the lights when I pulled off. This allowed me to watch the drunks weave on by at 30-50 mph.

They used so much of the road I began to look for trees for protection lest they leave the pavement as they passed. I strongly suspect that this is part of what happens when drunks hit cars that are pulled off the road. They simply don't have enough control of their cars to avoid hitting the things they see. They also don't always see the things they should.
B. Carfree is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
DCSConcepts
Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback
4
11-11-17 09:54 AM
Akth8r
Commuting
55
11-14-16 12:22 PM
Rootman
Advocacy & Safety
15
04-29-15 09:06 AM
rumrunn6
Advocacy & Safety
41
10-23-13 02:31 PM
ndbiker
Living Car Free
3
08-06-10 02:23 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.