CB HI

BS, it has been posted many times in BFs noting that many sections of freeways in the midwest and especially the west, cyclist are allowed access to ride on.

Why do so many here keep posting this false claim?

zonatandem

Well it likely helped that the 'law breaker' was Canadian.
Most Dutch have great affection for Cannucks, as they were liberated by them in World War II.
Fun reading the Dutch/English captions; am somewhat fluent in Dutch and there were a couple things sort of lost in the translation.

rebel1916

Isn't there a VC corral where all such drivel is to be stored?

CB HI

Except this had nothing to do with actual VC, just VC hate.

rebel1916

I believe all discussions of wacky VC philosophy, whether hate filled or lovey dovey are supposed to be segregated.

Chicago Al 

When someone is this determined to misunderstand what is going on, there is no point arguing with him.

CB HI

how come there are no tags links to the post you are quoting? That is an automatic function in BFs, yet yours are missing.

CB HI

Yet another pointless troll.

I-Like-To-Bike

Also by the British, Americans, and others.

rebel1916

But couldn't this whole thread be seen as a troll? After all, discussion of the nonsensical philosophy that is VC is supposed to be confined to VC purgatory. As a non VCer, I shouldn't be forced to look at it.

hotbike

two more notes:

1) The subtitles do NOT translate what was being said in several of the frames, and seem to promote someone's viewpoint other than the Cyclist

2) No, I think he was NOT a Vehicular Cyclist. A VC'er would have taken the Lane, this Canadian guy was riding on the road Shoulder.

buck1973

Was the law the same in 1995 when that video was made? I haven't been to the Netherlands since 1997 and can't remember if there were any cyclists on the roads.

John Forester

Exactly. I have cycled many hundreds of miles on US freeways, where permitted, and some on bits that aren't permitted, and on freeways I cycle on the shoulder. Why not, it's smooth, and the few intersections are grade separated with on-off connections that are easily managed. No reason not to.

wphamilton

ILTB said that you could go as fast as you like between towns, and Chicago Al said that in towns the typical cyclist was efficiently fast. So do you recall from this debate, were there a sizable number of cyclists who couldn't go as fast as they wished to, on the paths? Or was it shot down because the fast cyclist was more mythical than real?

CB HI

Then close your poor tender eyes and do not open a thread with the letters VC in it.

Sad that is so hard for you.

Fargo Wolf

I would say it's been law since the mid 70s, but wouldn't be surprised if it's been law for far longer.

The problem is twofold.

1: There is a capacity issue in larger areas. The idea was to allow Dutch cyclists the opportunity to choose whether they wanted to use the pre existing bike path, or take to the road, in order to bypass (bicycle) congestion.

2: The other issue was in regards to racing cyclists using the pathways as their own personal track.

The idea was shot down for obvious (to the Dutch anyway) reasons. Simply put, the bike paths are there for a reason.

YouTube linky:

How the Dutch Got Their Cycle Paths
How the Dutch got their cycle paths - YouTube

wphamilton

Ah, so maybe my earlier speculation is back on track then. Perhaps the Canadian is similar to the Dutch racing cyclists for whom the paths are too congested to use safely as their personal track, and was on the highway playing dumb for the same reason.

spare_wheel

Even though most of them use these techniques on a daily basis.

Chicago Al 

In the video, it's dark, it's raining (not unusual in the NL!), the guy has a long trip (90km), he's got a touring setup with panniers. How fast do you think he was going?

Also--it's likely well past rush hour and he's going in between major cities, not commuting to a nearby suburb, so congestion would not be an issue.

You seem determined to find some way the cyclist was behaving reasonably, but this is really reaching.

yugyug

This doesn't fit with my experience of two years living in NL. I commonly rode on and saw cyclists ride on many different types of roads. Many small urban or suburban roads do not have cycle paths and commuting cyclists mix it up with cars with no problem. I saw certain types of cyclists, such as those in pelotons or riding recumbents, use main roads adjacent to bike paths too. Not saying I know the law precisely, but it doesn't seem to be an issue with the Dutch. I remember I was told off for riding on footpaths and through pedestrians malls, but never for riding on roads.

wphamilton

Sure, why not? We can't crawl into his brainpan and for all we know he was stoned or stupid but chances are it was perfectly reasonable in his mind. And frankly, other than it being illegal there the road looks reasonable to ride on.

90 klicks isn't all that far, I think a touring cyclist worth his salt would keep up a pace quite a bit better than the typical rider. I think he'd be going 18-20 mph maybe more.

Chicago Al 

Right you are.

He takes his bike from Canada to the NL, and his idea of touring is riding on the shoulder of a high speed motorway, breathing fumes, when he could be riding through beautiful countryside and small towns. (Admittedly, in the rain in either case!) I guess some people have a different idea of fun.

This, and Mr Forester's reminiscence upthread about riding on the shoulder of interstates, reminds me of Dana Carvey's old routine on SNL.


'We didn't have any fancy bike paths! We rode on the interstate, next to trucks belching diesel fumes! AND WE LIKED IT!'

kickstart

Using VC techniques if safe and productive when there isn't any other options is very different from making those VC techniques a full time endeavor regardless of conditions or need. But that's nothing more than rhetoric as there really is no such thing as true VCing by definition or practice.

spare_wheel

i agree. in fact, i mix up my VC with about equal parts SC (scofflaw cycling).

Dunbar

I saw a lot of cyclists riding on the interstate shoulder outside of Calgary. Something you never see in The States. So I can somewhat buy the notion that this Canadian guy was "just doing what he does in Canada."