1nterceptor

"A vehicular cyclist visits the Netherlands. Stopped by police on the motorway.":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9gM-xg0id0

Dear mods; not sure if this has been posted/discussed before.
Please feel free to delete if it has been brought up before.

bikemig 

I'm so glad he's Canadian and not American, . This guy is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I love how the cops dealt with him. Can you imagine having the uber polite Dutch police deal with a Cliven Bundy here in Nevada? That would be an inter-cultural experience worth watching.

FBinNY 

I don't know about Canada, but here in the USA riding is generally prohibited on limited access highways. There are plenty of exceptions. However, I've found police to be pretty friendly, and helpful when I've had to break this rule from time to time. In one case the officer asked how far we were headed, and provided rear cover police for the 5 miles involved. In another, when I explained that they built the interstate over the old bypass road around town, and I had no alternative, the officer offered to show me an alternate use.

I've never been lectured or treated badly, though I don't ride interstates often enough to have a large base of experience.

bikemig 

I believe it is OK to ride on the shoulder of the trans-Canadian highway or least when there is no other route. I did so for 3 days near Lake Superior. It was not much fun.

My point is that the Netherlands has lots of really great bike paths. Why wouldn't you ride that rather than alongside a highway? Did this not realize that the Netherlands is like pretty bike friendly before going there?

FBinNY 

I guess it depends on how you define bicycle friendliness. (Though, by any measure the Netherlands are pretty bike friendly). You define friendliness as plenty of cycle tracks, I define it as maximum access to roads, not necessarily including interstates.

There's no way of knowing why he was on this section of interstate, which I would have considered a last resort. However, maybe it was the shortest connector to his destination, or he couldn't find the cycle track, or maybe he started on a road which merged onto this highway.

As far as I'm concerned, the only conclusion to draw is that the police there are courteous, helpful, and focused on solving a problem then they are in issuing citations. Or that they only put selected dash cam videos on the internet.

Chicago Al 

I am not sure that the cyclist in the video is really 'Vehicular' in the sense of defining himself that way, having read Forester's book, etc. He's clearly not trying to 'make a point' by riding on the highway in the NL; if you believe what he says, he is just doing what he is accustomed to at home.

If anything, he just seems generally clueless. Not only had he somehow missed that there are (fantastic) bike paths between cities and towns, often taking a shorter route than the roads, but he can't even remember the name of the city he is going to. It's a wonder he managed to successfully get from Canada to the NL...though maybe that was not even where he intended to go! The Dutch police are amazingly patient and polite with him.

Of course the errant cyclist could be 'playing dumb.' If so, he's doing a fantastic job of it.

I-Like-To-Bike

Your last sentence suggests the method by which the cyclist defines himself as a Vehicular Cyclist.

CB HI

I see you are trolling again.

ijsbrand

This is virtually impossible because of the road designs commonly used. Highways are separated from anything else. So, he must have had to pas a traffic sign as well explicitly forbidding cycles to go where he went.

genec

Note that it is well pointed out that the "cycleways" are shorter than the "motorways," I found this to be quite true in Finland also. Thus there is scant justification for a cyclist to ride on motorways under such conditions.

This guy was clearly clueless.

Chicago Al 

The guy was clearly not on a business trip, he was some kind of tourist.

So why would a tourist, on a bike, not take the 'scenic' route through the country he's visiting? That's what cycling tourists do!

The bike path route in this case was likely shorter than the motor highway, and he had to go to some trouble to even get on the motorway, so it suggests he did so deliberately.

But if he was a self-styled 'advocate' trying to test out VC riding in the NL, he sure isn't making much effort to get his point of view across, even with a video camera present.

Maybe he had come to Amsterdam and spent too much time in the 'coffeeshops' !

wphamilton

Would he have to crawl along at 10-13 mph on the cycle-paths? Are they crowded, even slower perhaps? Maybe he was in a hurry.

I-Like-To-Bike

Have you ever ridden between cities/towns in NL?

Maybe the cyclist in question was clueless at best, more than likely he was a clueless jerk.

howsteepisit

I still do not understand why he was identified as a "vehicular cyclist" My impression is that he was riding on the shoulder, but I could be wrong there.

Fargo Wolf

Being Canadian myself, I can tell you that, for the most part, it is perfectly legal to cycle on the shoulder of a highway/freeway with few exceptions. The exceptions are some bridges and tunnels. With bridges, cyclists may use the sidewalk, rather than a traffic lane. In the Province of BC, two tunnels are off limits to cyclists. The George Massey Tunnel and Cassiar Tunnel.

As for the cyclist in the video, I can somewhat understand his argument for riding where he was. Bike paths in Canada are, for the most part, for recreational cycling, whereas in the Netherlands, they are direct routes. Still, there's no excuse for not doing a bit of research and planning on routes beforehand. Also, keep in mind that laws in Europe are far more stringent in regards to what vehicles can and can not use a given route and are very clearly signed at the entrances.

hotbike

Cycling Study Tour in Assen and Groningen, Netherlands (Holland)
(the link at the end of the video)

Well, that highway is Limited Access , and you wouldn't be allowed to ride on a Limited Access highway in the US , either.

What I want to know is, can you ride your Bicycle on regular roads, which have traffic lights, sidewalks, etc, in the Netherlands?

Fargo Wolf

No. By law, you are required to use the cycle pathways. That's why they (the bike paths) are there. There are some routes in residential areas where motorists are "the guests of cyclists" and can use a bike path to access their homes. These are very clearly signed (as if the red pavement isn't a big enough clue). I'm aware of a debate a couple of years ago, that would have seen a change in Dutch law to allow faster cyclists to use a traffic lane, rather than path. That was overwhelmingly shot down.

Chicago Al 

Crowded? ''Crawl"?? At rush hour, in towns, sure there can be congestion. Between towns, not likely. You would be surprised at the pace of routine Dutch cycling; after all for most of them it's commuting and they are (to indulge in stereotyping) very efficient people.

As has been pointed out, this guy went out of his way, literally and figuratively, to ride on the highway. And if he was in a hurry you might think he'd be clearer on exactly where he was going.

I am certainly not an expert in Dutch cycling though, only having done so for a week there. Maybe someone with more experience will speak up.

wphamilton

Nope, I've only seen pictures and read accounts. Have you? How fast or slow are they in towns and between towns? Is there a speed limit like on our paths? How crowded is it?

John Forester

It apparently has not occurred to any of the posters that this whole event was a put-up propaganda job? Consider the fact that the film is taken by the most prominent Dutch bikeway propandist. What's the chance that he would be present for such a traffic stop? That is, without pre-planning.

bikemig 

Who is the propagandist? In any case, why should anyone here know who he is? You do so tell us what the point of this youtube moment was.

I-Like-To-Bike

Have I? Yes, numerous times on many visits between 1986-2002. No speed limits, as fast as anyone can cycle when riding in between cities and towns. Not crowded enough to impact the pleasure of cycle touring in the NL, enough cyclists not to get lonely.

Chicago Al 

I think you'll find that in response #6 I questioned whether this was actually a 'vehicular cyclist,' as have others.

The 'film' (video) was put on youtube by David Hembrow, but he does not say that he took it himself, which he did not.

In fact there is a title saying that it was taken from Dutch TV; specifically from the show 'Stop! Politie!' which is a kind of documentary-reality-'Life-of' program.

More info and other clips are at the Stop! Politie! site. This was only one moment, and the fact that a cyclist being shepherded to a safer route was considered worthy of the edit suggests that the whole show is probably a lot less melodramatic than 'Cops' in the US. (I doubt they can sell it to Fox.)

It is Mr Hembrow who calls the cyclist 'vehicular,' and it's good to know that Mr Forester apparently disapproves of the cyclist's behavior as well.

By the way, I'm surprised to see the term 'pre-planning' from such a careful parser of the English language as Mr Forester. Perhaps he is making a distinction between it and some other kind of planning which does not happen 'pre' an event.

howsteepisit

That was the point of my post as to why it was called VC.

CB HI

He was, many here just like piling hate on VC.