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  1. #51
    Senior Member trailangel's Avatar
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    Nobody rides with a fricken' bell on their bike here, must be an east coast thing.
    Kind of arrogant, ring your bell and expect pedestrians to move out of your way on a MUP
    where pedestrians and livestock have the right of way before bikes.

  2. #52
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Must be a West Coast thing. Around here,bells are used to alert peds that we're going to pass them(giving notice is required). Also,most MUPs are striped and peds are supposed to keep to the right. No-one has more rights to the trail than anyone else,all users are legally equal. That's way it's called a Multi Use Path.

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  3. #53
    Senior Member trailangel's Avatar
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    We have these signs:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #54
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Yeah,it's different over here:
    Safety on the Capital Crescent Trail

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  5. #55
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo View Post
    I come across this a lot. Dog(s) being walked without a leash on a MUP. It's marked (and signed) as a bike path, but it's a popular path in my city for all (and I don't mind that, we all deserve a nice path to walk/bike/run) away from cars and in a natural environment. It's also a law that all pets are on a controlled leash (it's on the signs as well).

    But I've come across more and more people who insist on walking dogs w/o leashes on this path. And even with a call (ON YOUR LEFT) they do nothing to control their pets which frequently block the path. I always slow down on certain areas I know are crowded with peds, but this kinda thing is really pissing me off.

    Today, a guy I see all the time, who never has his large dogs on a leash, who is always on his phone paying no attention to anything. I stopped and told him that law requires leashes, that this is a bike path and his dogs are a danger to cyclists...told me to go "F" myself and next time he'll make sure his dog's attack me (seriously...not that I really think that).

    WTF can be done in this situation? I mean I want to tell him about the time I've been bitten (and the cost that comes with that, for him) and the safety issues as well. But it really seems hard to make many of these people understand.

    Spring...that time of the year when the morons come out and we're forced to deal with them? Until they are too fat and drunk to continue their New Year's resolution and just let their neglected pets out to sheet in the backyard?
    I'm sorry...that demands local action and you're going to just get a few action hero responses here and no actual remedy.

    You have already pointed out violation of the leash laws and then you contend you were threatened with assault.

    Get it over with and report this person. Dogs are considered a deadly weapon as they can kill you. Even if not prompted by an owner, bicycles have a knack for confusing dogs and the noises they make that you might not notice can cause them consternation as well...if they are scared or feel threatened, or they feel their owner is they do what dogs go instinctively-react to protect.

    There is absolutely no excuse for anybody threatening to sic a dog on you solely because of their embarrassment. This person was a bully and a jerk and should be reported.

    Many people have cellphones these days and with their prominence everywhere it isn't that hard to stay back and take photos or videos inconspicuously. Send them to your local TV station if you don't feel the city government will act. There's always a station that claims to be a public advocate and will investigate problems then try to help you solve them...they call them things like "On Your Side" etc and advertise this. The chances are probably good that if you report the threatened assault and can show some pictures the city and police will be pretty interested anyway. You live in the second largest city in your county and are close enough to Denver to get some attention.
    Last edited by Rollfast; 07-28-14 at 02:50 AM.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
    Nobody rides with a fricken' bell on their bike here, must be an east coast thing.
    Kind of arrogant, ring your bell and expect pedestrians to move out of your way on a MUP
    where pedestrians and livestock have the right of way before bikes.
    I don't think you should intimidate people with a loud bell. But usually people who are taking up the entire path (both directions) will politely move if given a heads up.

    I often ride on the LA River MUP. For the most part people are considerate and try to share the path. I always try to be polite and thank people when I pass them so that they feel like we're sharing and I'm not some ******* riding too fast.

    Some people are oblivious. Once I encountered a woman standing off the path and watching her pre-school aged child stand on the center line. The child had placed a long stick on the ground across the path so that cyclists would run over it. This stick didn't bother me, it was skinny. But that little kid was just watching it there from the middle of the path! How did I know he wouldn't get spooked and run across my path at the last minute? As I approached I shouted a couple of times for the kid to get off the path. Finally he did. I still slowed down and yelled at the woman that she was crazy to let her kid play there and that he could get hurt or killed. She had been laughing with the kid and when I yelled her smile froze and she looked confused.

    I doubt my message got through. It wasn't delivered effectively. But if I had been nicer, stopped my bike and explained why his behavior was unsafe for him would it have resonated with her? Maybe and maybe not but it would have had a chance. Then again maybe it's easier to just grit my teeth, slow down, move past, and keep going.

  7. #57
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Must be a West Coast thing. Around here,bells are used to alert peds that we're going to pass them(giving notice is required). Also,most MUPs are striped and peds are supposed to keep to the right. No-one has more rights to the trail than anyone else,all users are legally equal. That's way it's called a Multi Use Path.
    That's my thought. A simple "ding-ding" from the bell lets people know someone else is there. With the best will in the world if you shout ahead you might intend it to come across as "could you stand to one side please" but anything shouted can easily sound like "Get the (bleep) out of my (bleep) way". And if you don't shout it the chances of it being heard are reduced.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  8. #58
    Senior Member kookaburra1701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    That's my thought. A simple "ding-ding" from the bell lets people know someone else is there. With the best will in the world if you shout ahead you might intend it to come across as "could you stand to one side please" but anything shouted can easily sound like "Get the (bleep) out of my (bleep) way". And if you don't shout it the chances of it being heard are reduced.
    This is the way bells are generally perceived in my neck of the woods too. I also try to follow it up with a "Good morning/afternoon/evening" when appropriate as I'm passing.

    Of course some haters are just gonna hate. A few weeks ago I passed an old lady at 10 mph according to my cyclometer, and she screamed at me about riding too fast.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kookaburra1701 View Post
    This is the way bells are generally perceived in my neck of the woods too. I also try to follow it up with a "Good morning/afternoon/evening" when appropriate as I'm passing.
    Bells are at best a vague warning without spatial information. Given how dazed and confused people on mups can be, I prefer more detailed communication: "coming through, on your left, heads up etc."
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  10. #60
    Senior Member kookaburra1701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Bells are at best a vague warning without spatial information. Given how dazed and confused people on mups can be, I prefer more detailed communication: "coming through, on your left, heads up etc."
    I guess it's because the MUP I use is a major commuter route. It's very rare for someone to not stay right, or get themselves to the right/get their dog under control/grab a wayward toddler when they hear a bell. There's also a handful of elementary and middle schools that it serves, and so during morning and afternoon/evening rush hour there's lots of kids on bike, foot, skateboard, rollerblades, etc using the path properly. I didn't realize how rare encountering truly clueless people was until there was a concert at the fairgrounds and I was riding by shortly after it ended. So many people trying to get back to their cars that were completely unable to cope with MUP traffic.

    ETA: This does remind me of the time one of the elementary schools had a fire drill during the morning commute hour and evacuated the kids and had them stand directly in the middle of the MUP. I've never seen them do it again, so I think the resulting clusterfork made them realize what a bad idea it was.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kookaburra1701 View Post
    I guess it's because the MUP I use is a major commuter route. It's very rare for someone to not stay right, or get themselves to the right/get their dog under control/grab a wayward toddler when they hear a bell.
    Must be nice! Unfortunately in the summer some of our mups are full of sun-dazed out-of-towners who are completely oblivious to their surroundings. I routinely have to come to a full stop as people walk towards me staring right through me.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  12. #62
    Senior Member kookaburra1701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Must be nice! Unfortunately in the summer some of our mups are full of sun-dazed out-of-towners who are completely oblivious to their surroundings. I routinely have to come to a full stop as people walk towards me staring right through me.
    It is pretty nice. I remind myself of the stuff other posters have to deal with on MUPs when I encounter the occasional annoyance. In general the wildlife is much more of a hazard than the people. So far the only accident I've had as an adult on my bicycle was on the MUP...I hit a nutria that ran out in front of me.
    2014 Specialized Dolce, 1987 Schwinn Tempo, 2012 Windsor Kensington 8

  13. #63
    Member Steve Urquell's Avatar
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    WRT Bells: I have about 30% of the peds I pass thank me for ringing my brrringg bell when passing. Oddly enough, one time I was riding and heard one of the time clock, single-ding bells, neither I nor my riding partner realized what we were hearing.

    Our MUPs have signs that instruct to stay right and signal when passing either verbally or with a bell

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Bells are at best a vague warning without spatial information. Given how dazed and confused people on mups can be, I prefer more detailed communication: "coming through, on your left, heads up etc."
    Its been my experience that while bells may be "vague", they tend to be better received than verbal announcements. When folks respond to a bell its typically a smile, wave, or "thanks", and responses to verbal tend to a scowl like who-are-you-telling-me-what-to-do.
    That said, considering that many folks treat MUPs as a park, wear ear buds, are goal orientated, or self absorbed, warnings of any kind are really just a courtesy. The only dependable solution is to modify ones expectations in accordance to present conditions.

    I'm willing to admit once in a while I catch myself loosing sight of how my choices impact others in a negative way. Its important to remember the root cause of conflict is a lack of empathy.....and it takes two.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    and responses to verbal tend to a scowl like who-are-you-telling-me-what-to-do.
    i think you are reading too much into these interactions. on the only mup that i ride routinely, i also tend to gesture at the bike symbols and happily quite a few people "get it" and move over.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  16. #66
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Bells are at best a vague warning without spatial information. Given how dazed and confused people on mups can be, I prefer more detailed communication: "coming through, on your left, heads up etc."
    If people are dazed and confused there's no way of knowing how they'll interpret something that we might regard as being obvious. The trouble with "on your left" is that if it's misheard or misunderstood you end up with someone stepping left as you pass on their left.

    On a shared path a bell lets people know you're there (and if they can't see you it's reasonable to assume you're behind them) and gives them chance to move. If you're going fast enough you have to brake hard to avoid running into them before they've had chance to move, you're probably going too fast for a shared path.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    i think you are reading too much into these interactions.
    While I don't agree with the "too much" part of your statement, I do agree that as a professional driver who operates a semi in an urban environment, Its become a habit to read into my interactions with others because their actions and reactions help me plan my course of action, and its my responsibility to err on the side of safety.

  18. #68
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMB42 View Post
    Just keep in mind that a child can step in front of you just as easily as any unleshed dog...
    Exactly. MUPs are not race tracks.

  19. #69
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    Bells are at best a vague warning without spatial information. Given how dazed and confused people on mups can be, I prefer more detailed communication: "coming through, on your left, heads up etc."
    I've had numerous people react to "on your left" by moving left. One woman looked back,saw me,then jumped in surprise and moved in front of me. All my bikes either have a bell mounted,or I pop on one of those Zefal clip-ons.

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    dog whistle attached to front forks....warns the dogs to look out for you

  21. #71
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sm1960 View Post
    dog whistle attached to front forks....warns the dogs to look out for you
    At the typical riding velocity on MUPs does a dog whistle make any significant noise, and if it does would the dog be attracted to you rather than repulsed? I have no idea, just want to know.
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  22. #72
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    Its been my experience that while bells may be "vague", they tend to be better received than verbal announcements. When folks respond to a bell its typically a smile, wave, or "thanks", and responses to verbal tend to a scowl like who-are-you-telling-me-what-to-do.
    The advantage of bells is this: When a person calls out to another person, it can be a warning or an invitation to conversation. Especially if the pedestrian doesn't clearly hear your warning, it can be construed as a conversation starter, so they look back to the source (and sometimes lean that way, cutting into the cyclist's path). In the worst case, it can be construed as a command to move to the left, into the cyclist's path.

    When a bell is rung, it's never an invitation to conversation. It may result in a short acknowledgment/thank you, but you never see the person wheel around and veer into the path. Even newbs realize it's a bicycle that wants to pass and they stick to the right. I personally try to be over toward the left when I ring the bell so they have a clue that I'm passing on the left, but it's pretty much the default to pass on the left anyway.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  23. #73
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    At the typical riding velocity on MUPs does a dog whistle make any significant noise, and if it does would the dog be attracted to you rather than repulsed? I have no idea, just want to know.
    Depends. Are you talking about an African or European dog whistle?
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  24. #74
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    that would be one made of coconut shells I think
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  25. #75
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    OP: In your situation it's the owner, not the dogs that are the issue. Because he threatened you with bodily harm I would have made an immediate threat assessment. I would have backed off, taken a picture of him and the dogs, then called the authorities. You don't know if this person is serious or not, or just being a dirt bag.

    On the other hand, as a former Marine, I do not take threats very well. My personal reaction would have been much different then what I posted above.
    Last edited by KnurledNut; 08-19-14 at 02:44 PM.

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