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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    I wondered the same thing. But at the same time, the claim to her slowing down traffic is petty and bogus. She is only in one lane, not two. Also, She is not stopping people from passing her.
    Assuming the traffic is not bumper to bumper anyway she's creating a (rolling) 2 lane into one lane merge, comparable to a construction zone, but without advance signage or a flagman. In NYS a pinch of this kind would typically have warning signs and flashing lights to manage the pinch.

    Here we have a catch-22. If she moves out into the lane a safe distance, the traffic has to merge into a single lane to pass. If she keeps to the right edge, more brazen drivers can slip by without merging but would be passing her dangerously close.

    This is one of those gray areas. If the road is the only viable connector and the shoulder is unrideable, and she's using it for a minimum distance, she has no choice, and I'm on her side. OTOH - if there other good choices (which folks say there aren't), and/or the shoulder is reasonably rideable then she has choices, and loses my sympathy and support.

    One thing hat no one is bringing up is WHY is she the only one getting cited, and facing an injunction? (if that's the case). A local posted here that many riders use this road, and somehow manage not to raise the ire of police and traffic.
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  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Assuming the traffic is not bumper to bumper anyway she's creating a (rolling) 2 lane into one lane merge, comparable to a construction zone, but without advance signage or a flagman. In NYS a pinch of this kind would typically have warning signs and flashing lights to manage the pinch.
    I like this analogy.

  3. #128
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
    From my perspective it matters little whether it's a 55 mph limit or whatever. I was just commenting on the inherent danger. I see it as extremely dangerous and there is no judgement as to her rights or the laws. But, in the end, dead is dead.
    Well, Danger notwithstanding, the judge so far has basically said the county attorney's claims are bogus. Because the county attorney wanted her banned from riding on U.S.27, pending the outcome of the trial.

    I have heard of cyclists' being killed on far less dangerous roads. So, She is doing something right, to still be alive, riding on a 55mph road.

  4. #129
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Assuming the traffic is not bumper to bumper anyway she's creating a (rolling) 2 lane into one lane merge, comparable to a construction zone, but without advance signage or a flagman. In NYS a pinch of this kind would typically have warning signs and flashing lights to manage the pinch.
    The traffic is not bumper-to-bumper. Watch the videos of her on the road. The traffic in the passing lane was passing her with no problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Here we have a catch-22. If she moves out into the lane a safe distance, the traffic has to merge into a single lane to pass. If she keeps to the right edge, more brazen drivers can slip by without merging but would be passing her dangerously close.
    Especially since that is a 55mph section of that road.
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    This is one of those gray areas. If the road is the only viable connector and the shoulder is unrideable, and she's using it for a minimum distance, she has no choice, and I'm on her side. OTOH - if there other good choices (which folks say there aren't), and/or the shoulder is reasonably rideable then she has choices, and loses my sympathy and support.
    Agreed. I don't think she is being ignorant about her choice, even though I do think it is risky.
    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    One thing that no one is bringing up is WHY is she the only one getting cited, and facing an injunction? (if that's the case). A local posted here that many riders use this road, and somehow manage not to raise the ire of police and traffic.
    Very good point!!

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    One thing hat no one is bringing up is WHY is she the only one getting cited, and facing an injunction? (if that's the case). A local posted here that many riders use this road, and somehow manage not to raise the ire of police and traffic.
    I did bring up that point several times
    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    This case isn't about cyclists legally and safely using the road, this case is about one person on a bike creating a problem on those roads on a regular basis. I'm sure other cyclists are using those roads, and apparently without issue as there has been no mention of others creating issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    Is she the only cyclist in that area? I have a hard time believing that. if others can ride in that area safely without complaints or citations there must be good options. She rides because she lost her licence, this and her issues about her choices while riding seem to indicate a pattern of bad judgment. It seems to be about her, not cycling.
    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    this is about a specific rider on a specific road who's actions stand out from all other users in a negative manner.
    But some choose to ignore that fact.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    I did bring up that point several times...
    But some choose to ignore that fact.
    I aware that you brought up those points, and like you, feel that this case is about specific conduct, not general principles.

    However, we're not privy to exactly what the issues are. If she's the ONLY one not on the shoulder that may be it, or it could be about how much time she spends in the lane, or her lane placement, or some combination of factors.
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  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    I aware that you brought up those points, and like you, feel that this case is about specific conduct, not general principles.

    However, we're not privy to exactly what the issues are. If she's the ONLY one not on the shoulder that may be it, or it could be about how much time she spends in the lane, or her lane placement, or some combination of factors.
    I glad I'm not the only one here who understands its about the actions of one person, and wondering exactly what she's doing that makes her stand out.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    Rumble strips are not practical, in exercising AFRAP.
    Several roads I ride on a regular basis have rumble strips, mostly 2 lane 50 mph, I simply ride to the right of them, no problem. If I need to cross them, there is a 4' gap every 10'-12', it barely takes conscious effort to avoid them.

    I actually prefer roads that have them because they give an audible warning of vehicles drifting from their lane.

  9. #134
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    One thing hat no one is bringing up is WHY is she the only one getting cited, and facing an injunction? (if that's the case). A local posted here that many riders use this road, and somehow manage not to raise the ire of police and traffic.
    And in that post, the local rider made it clear that he breaks the law while riding on US27, while it appears the OP rider obeys the law. Seems the cops and prosecutor prefer lawless riders who set themselves up for right hooks; really no surprise though.

    But some like kickstart choose to ignore that fact.[/QUOTE]
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    I glad I'm not the only one here who understands its about the actions of one person, and wondering exactly what she's doing that makes her stand out.
    She's following traffic laws. That's enough to make one stand out.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjdm View Post
    She's following traffic laws. That's enough to make one stand out.
    There's nothing to indicate there were motorists violating the law either. That's part of the problem here, when lawful actions are in serious conflict with each other. No law obligates us to do something dangerous or disruptive.

    I always do my best to avoid breaking the law such as not using a right turn lane to go straight. If traffic conditions rule out taking the through lane, I'll use the shoulder, or sidewalk, but if that's not practical or possible I will use the far left portion of turn lane.
    My safety trumps the law, and attempting to ride a bicycle in 55mph highway traffic is just...............something I won't do, and from what I've observed in my lifetime, what few cyclists do.

  12. #137
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    There's nothing to indicate there were motorists violating the law either. That's part of the problem here, when lawful actions are in serious conflict with each other. No law obligates us to do something dangerous or disruptive.

    I always do my best to avoid breaking the law such as not using a right turn lane to go straight. If traffic conditions rule out taking the through lane, I'll use the shoulder, or sidewalk, but if that's not practical or possible I will use the far left portion of turn lane.
    My safety trumps the law, and attempting to ride a bicycle in 55mph highway traffic is just...............something I won't do, and from what I've observed in my lifetime, what few cyclists do.
    Few here care about how you CHOOSE to ride, even some of your law breaking. Amazing how much disdain you have for how others CHOOSE to ride even when it is legal.
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  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    Few here care about how you CHOOSE to ride, even some of your law breaking. Amazing how much disdain you have for how others CHOOSE to ride even when it is legal.
    Well when someones choices draw numerous complaints and citations, and don't represent typical or productive behavior, would it be better to condone or emulate it? Is offering alternative choices unconstructive?

    For someone who knows what others care about, I'm surprised you're not cognizant that people do care when those choices become unreasonably disruptive.

  14. #139
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    Well when someones choices draw numerous complaints and citations, and don't represent typical or productive behavior, would it be better to condone or emulate it? Is offering alternative choices unconstructive?
    So choices are fine,


    as long as they match up with YOUR choices.

    Her cycling is productive. It has gotten her safely and legally from point A to point B.

    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    For someone who knows what others care about, I'm surprised you're not cognizant that people do care when those choices become unreasonably disruptive.
    You only care about forcing her to ride like you.
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  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    So choices are fine,


    as long as they match up with YOUR choices.

    Her cycling is productive. It has gotten her safely and legally from point A to point B.

    You only care about forcing her to ride like you.
    The thing is I realize its not all about me.

    Productive for just one person isn't sharing the road, as sharing by definition includes everyone. I don't want to force her to ride like me, but it looks like the citizens and officials of her community want her to ride like other cyclists there do.

    Obviously the idiom "common sense isn't so common" fits the bill here.

    you%u00252520don%2527t%2520own%2520the%2520road.jpg

  16. #141
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    The thing is I realize its not all about me.

    Productive for just one person isn't sharing the road, as sharing by definition includes everyone. I don't want to force her to ride like me, but it looks like the citizens and officials of her community want her to ride like other cyclists there do.

    Obviously the idiom "common sense isn't so common" fits the bill here.
    Sharing the road to you, means getting the hell out of the way. A very common motorist definition of sharing the road.

    Odd how what you call common sense, applies to typical views mostly held by motorist.
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    There's nothing to indicate there were motorists violating the law either. That's part of the problem here, when lawful actions are in serious conflict with each other. No law obligates us to do something dangerous or disruptive.

    I always do my best to avoid breaking the law such as not using a right turn lane to go straight. If traffic conditions rule out taking the through lane, I'll use the shoulder, or sidewalk, but if that's not practical or possible I will use the far left portion of turn lane.
    My safety trumps the law, and attempting to ride a bicycle in 55mph highway traffic is just...............something I won't do, and from what I've observed in my lifetime, what few cyclists do.
    What the story doesnt tell you is that most of the cars on this road exceed the speed limit by a considerable amount and I don't think I can ever remember seeing a car pulled over in this area. I am curious why the authorities are not interested in enforcing the laws it already has instead of punishing this woman for riding legally.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
    What the story doesnt tell you is that most of the cars on this road exceed the speed limit by a considerable amount and I don't think I can ever remember seeing a car pulled over in this area. I am curious why the authorities are not interested in enforcing the laws it already has instead of punishing this woman for riding legally.
    It's all about maintaining traffic flow, other than road construction and severe weather, anything that disrupts traffic flow generally gets dealt with quickly.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
    What the story doesnt tell you is that most of the cars on this road exceed the speed limit by a considerable amount and I don't think I can ever remember seeing a car pulled over in this area. I am curious why the authorities are not interested in enforcing the laws it already has instead of punishing this woman for riding legally.
    If traffic is traveling at 60+mph on that road, that's freeway speeds, which is more dangerous and disruptive? "most of the cars" going 5mph over the posted limit, or one person going 50mph slower than them?

    Keep in mind, even with the lax enforcement we have, many still get up in arms over "excessive" enforcement of "arbitrary" laws, seeing it as nothing more than an excuse to generate revenue.

  20. #145
    Senior Member trailmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    If traffic is traveling at 60+mph on that road, that's freeway speeds, which is more dangerous and disruptive? "most of the cars" going 5mph over the posted limit, or one person going 50mph slower than them?

    Keep in mind, even with the lax enforcement we have, many still get up in arms over "excessive" enforcement of "arbitrary" laws, seeing it as nothing more than an excuse to generate revenue.
    So it is ok for cars to break the law on this road but not ok for a cyclist to ride legally?

  21. #146
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    "numerous complaints and citations" could mean that there is a higher incidence of unreasonable people in that locale. It's not proof that the rider is doing something wrong or dangerous.

    Disruption of traffic flow does increase the danger of the traffic, to a degree. When there are disruptions to the smooth flow of traffic, drivers are expected to adjust. Let's be clear about this: moving slower than the prevailing speed is not illegal except where minimum speed limits are posted. Where there is no minimum speed, slower traffic is to be expected, and is acceptable on that road, and any increase of risk arises from a driver's failure to anticipate and adjust to a speed that is reasonable for the traffic conditions.

    When that becomes too arduous, the appropriate solution is a statute specifying a minimum speed for all traffic. If for some reason a statutory speed limit is impossible then too bad; slow down and deal with the legal traffic in a reasonable, safe manner.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
    So it is ok for cars to break the law on this road but not ok for a cyclist to ride legally?
    No, why would it be?

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    If traffic is traveling at 60+mph on that road, that's freeway speeds, which is more dangerous and disruptive? "most of the cars" going 5mph over the posted limit, or one person going 50mph slower than them?
    In looking at some of the alternate routes that were suggested in an earlier post....isolated, 2 lanes, double yellow line, very little to no shoulder,(where a cyclist will have to take the lane or ride in a similar style as the cyclist in question) and virtually the same traffic speed. Sounds like the local DOT hasn't given much thought to any other means of travel other than motor vehicles, and the cyclist in question is bringing that transportation gap to light.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    "numerous complaints and citations" could mean that there is a higher incidence of unreasonable people in that locale.
    So what is a reasonable expectation for a 55mph highway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    Others will strongly applaud you, but you do realize that you are breaking the law by traveling straight through from a right turn only lane.
    And the likelihood that a cyclist would ever get a ticket for it anywhere in the US is basically zero.

    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    It also encourages right hooks that many cyclist choose to avoid by taking the through lane.
    It could possibly encourage right-hooks. And it's easy to ride in those lanes in a way that significantly reduces the possibility of those right hooks. I assume that Kybicycle01 rides in such a manner.

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