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Old 05-06-14, 07:54 PM   #176
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What I am hoping is that the infrastructure is improved to accommodate cyclists and cars. On my commute this morning, I saw a different lady riding on 27 in the lane. Where she was riding(1-2 miles north of the area in question) there is no shoulder and in the lane is ones only choice.
Interesting, considering the claims that there is only ONE cyclist which takes the lane on US27.
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Old 05-06-14, 08:12 PM   #177
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Today, I commuted in to work and fell victim to wreckless riding.
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Old 05-07-14, 08:38 AM   #178
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You'll never get any noteworthy scars that way.
Chicks dig scars, too. Hmm...
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Old 05-07-14, 12:27 PM   #179
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Seems to me that the extreme cases are the ones that define our laws. So this one is just the type to solidify bicyclist rights to use non-limited access roadways.
Hard cases make bad law. This is not the fact pattern to push trying to enforce cyclist's rights.

As a cyclist, I look at that shoulder and think that is sure as hell where I'd be riding, regardless of my legal right to ride in the traffic lane.

Non cyclist jurors, many of whom may have been stuck in traffic on that road, will be highly likely to think she should be on the shoulder, and side with the prosecution.

Zealots pressing points don't do us favors with the general public, or law enforcement.
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Old 05-07-14, 12:31 PM   #180
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Without difficult cases the bounds of our rights would not be defined.
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Old 05-07-14, 12:37 PM   #181
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Without difficult cases the bounds of our rights would not be defined.
True. But you have to pick your battles. Try to make law on a bad set of facts, and you end up with bad law.

Most large corporations, and better advocacy groups know which cases have the best facts to give them the best chance to get the results they want.

You settle, or avoid, cases where the facts don't favor you. You litigate cases where the facts give you a chance to get the results you want.

This lady, trying to press a point, when there's a wide shoulder to ride on is not helping advance the cause of cyclists' rights to the road.

If you want to make a point with a case like this, pick a spot where there's no available shoulder.
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Old 05-07-14, 12:48 PM   #182
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You seem to know a great deal more about this case than I, merlin For example, its reported herein that some section so not have shoulders, is that untrue? My read of the story does not lead me to believe that the rider is a zealot, so you have knowledge of her that contradicts that?

Clarifications on the facts of the case would surely be appreciated.

Sometimes you have to take the case as it is, and do not have the luxury of picking a most favorable case.

But regardless, My own riding is most often not in the take the lane mode, I prefer bike lanes and taking the shoulder to taking the lane, but I would really hate to see the right to take the lane when I deem it necessary removed, so I see this as an important case to help insure that cyclist can take the lane when they feel its necessary for their own safety, and conversely, the right to take the lane should not be abridged because of perception of some motorists that cyclists do no belong on "their highway".
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Old 05-07-14, 01:38 PM   #183
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All I know is what I saw in the video, which includes her taking the lane in an area where there is a wide shoulder. She certainly has a choice not to ride in the lane for that portion of her ride.

She has the choice to ride in the shoulder where she can. If she did that, and only took the lane in areas where there wasn't a reasonable shoulder to ride on, it would certainly improve the appeal of her claim.

When she takes the lane in an area where there appears to be a safe shoulder to ride on, that where she comes off as a Zealot trying to prove a point.

And I think you're missing my point, by not using the shoulder where she could, and taking the lane where she doesn't have to, she increases the chances of getting a decision which could impact all of our rights to take the lane when it's necessary.
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Old 05-07-14, 01:53 PM   #184
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I can't make judgement without being the cyclist.

A couple weeks ago I rode this route:
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wick...m1!1b1!3e0!5i1

I stayed in lane to left of rumble strip as the shoulder surface was terrible. It looks ride-able in street view, but in reality at 25mph is much too bumpy, rough, debris, sometimes rumble strip meanders, etc.

street views:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8323...OdA-JksDQw!2e0

or
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wick...m1!1b1!3e0!5i1
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Old 05-07-14, 02:36 PM   #185
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There's a reason that "Justice" is pictured as blindfolded and holding a scale.

Often, judicial decisions depend not only on strict application of the law, but on balancing competing claims.

I don't know the real specifics of this case; exactly how rideable or not the shoulder is, the cyclist's exact lane placement, and why she's singled out-- if she is,-- and getting tickets or exactly why she's getting them.

However the ruling will hopefully turn on the details and specifics, within the context of the law. IMO, regardless of the traffic conditions, it would be wrong to ban the cyclists from this road entirely, but it might be reasonable to instruct her [and others] to use the shoulder when and where it's rideable.

For those who believe in an absolute right to the road, keep in mind that the government and judges have been restricting those rights "for our own safety" for decades if not longer, and I'd hate to see a broad ruling of this kind.

I'd also hate to see a blanket ruling in her favor, which may precipitate an alternate approach on the part of the county. Something like "bicycles must use shoulder" or "Slow traffic must use shoulder" is within the discretion of the highway dept at the county or state level, and could represent a setback for every cyclist, not just the one.
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Old 05-07-14, 06:30 PM   #186
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It seems, given the story as presented, the competing claims that Fb is referring to is a lady wanting to bike to work on an old road with hit and miss shoulders, and drivers who want to proceed as fast as possible. A partial solution such as a judicial order to use the shoulder when possible only creates a situation where the rider can be endlessly ticketed becasue she was not on the shoulder when a LEO thinks she should be. This smacks of the we'll force you into submission by out spending you school of thought.

I have yet to see any claim of her actually wrongdoing other than the circular logic "well nobody else is ticketed so she must be doing something wrong" school.

Sometime to preserve justice and freedom we have to tolerate those jerks who are on the fringe, because there is no good line to draw. Those of you who lived through the 60's and 70's need to recall the protest movements over the Vietnam conflict to see this. Clearly some of the protesters were over any line of productive discourse, but the right to speak was preserved.

Today, we tolerate mentally ill people standing at the curb and shouting profanities, becasue we value freedom and speech and freedom from unreasonable incarceration.

I guess I will agree to disagree here, and hope for a Solomonic Judge for the court cases.
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Old 05-07-14, 06:37 PM   #187
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...
I guess I will agree to disagree here, and hope for a Solomonic Judge for the court cases.
Yes, at least we can agree to hope for a thinking judge.
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Old 05-07-14, 06:44 PM   #188
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I guess I will agree to disagree here, and hope for a Solomonic Judge for the court cases.
I think she asked for a jury trial.
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Old 05-07-14, 06:52 PM   #189
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I am thinking thats a bad move, but you never know with juries.
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Old 05-07-14, 07:45 PM   #190
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I am thinking thats a bad move, but you never know with juries.
A story did say she asked for a jury trial. A big mistake in my view. A judge would do a better job of reading the law and knowing she had a right to ride on the road, plus the judge would be worried about being overturned on appeal.
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Old 05-08-14, 02:30 PM   #191
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A story did say she asked for a jury trial. A big mistake in my view. A judge would do a better job of reading the law and knowing she had a right to ride on the road, plus the judge would be worried about being overturned on appeal.
lexington is progressive city (esp. by ky standards) with ok bike infrastructure (bronze community) so there is some chance she will get a sympathetic jury.
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Old 05-08-14, 04:15 PM   #192
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lexington is progressive city (esp. by ky standards) with ok bike infrastructure (bronze community) so there is some chance she will get a sympathetic jury.
The bad new is that this case is being tried in Jessamine county, not Fayette.
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Old 05-08-14, 05:10 PM   #193
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The bad new is that this case is being tried in Jessamine county, not Fayette.
oops.
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Old 05-09-14, 07:11 AM   #194
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oops.
You are right though, Lexington is fairly forward thinking. Lexington/Fayette County and Jessamine have been teaming up lately on some transportation planning, especially in the 27 corridor. Hopefully LFUCG will put a little pressure on Jessamine county to do something positive to accommodate all road users instead of giving this lady tickets on her way to work.
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Old 05-24-14, 09:37 PM   #195
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Nicholasville Road 27 has a gift. A shoulder nearly as wide as a lane. If you ride it every workday like I do you will navigate and be watchful for glass and debris. I wish it was litter free, but IT IS VERY PASSABLE.


In the years I have commuted this route I have had to take the traffic lane only a few times. Then ONLY when I can merge without the 55mph traffic slowing abruptly. My opinion is that this person does this at every intersection when it's legal but not necessary. (Unless you have the neck of an owl, you need a mirror). It scares me, annoys drivers and gets unwanted attention from police. Please stay as far to the right as practicable!
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Old 06-25-14, 09:59 AM   #196
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According to a post on bentrider online, the trial is being moved up to mid-July.
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Old 09-12-14, 08:45 PM   #197
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The verdict is in. The judge found the cyclist guilty of several counts of reckless driving.
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