Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678
Results 176 to 197 of 197
  1. #176
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,420
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
    What I am hoping is that the infrastructure is improved to accommodate cyclists and cars. On my commute this morning, I saw a different lady riding on 27 in the lane. Where she was riding(1-2 miles north of the area in question) there is no shoulder and in the lane is ones only choice.
    Interesting, considering the claims that there is only ONE cyclist which takes the lane on US27.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  2. #177
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    4,847
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Today, I commuted in to work and fell victim to wreckless riding.
    You'll never get any noteworthy scars that way.

  3. #178
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,324
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
    You'll never get any noteworthy scars that way.
    Chicks dig scars, too. Hmm...
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  4. #179
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,363
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Seems to me that the extreme cases are the ones that define our laws. So this one is just the type to solidify bicyclist rights to use non-limited access roadways.
    Hard cases make bad law. This is not the fact pattern to push trying to enforce cyclist's rights.

    As a cyclist, I look at that shoulder and think that is sure as hell where I'd be riding, regardless of my legal right to ride in the traffic lane.

    Non cyclist jurors, many of whom may have been stuck in traffic on that road, will be highly likely to think she should be on the shoulder, and side with the prosecution.

    Zealots pressing points don't do us favors with the general public, or law enforcement.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  5. #180
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    My Bikes
    Mecian
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Without difficult cases the bounds of our rights would not be defined.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
    The 4 Rs to save the planet

    "Toes"

  6. #181
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,363
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Without difficult cases the bounds of our rights would not be defined.
    True. But you have to pick your battles. Try to make law on a bad set of facts, and you end up with bad law.

    Most large corporations, and better advocacy groups know which cases have the best facts to give them the best chance to get the results they want.

    You settle, or avoid, cases where the facts don't favor you. You litigate cases where the facts give you a chance to get the results you want.

    This lady, trying to press a point, when there's a wide shoulder to ride on is not helping advance the cause of cyclists' rights to the road.

    If you want to make a point with a case like this, pick a spot where there's no available shoulder.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  7. #182
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    My Bikes
    Mecian
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You seem to know a great deal more about this case than I, merlin For example, its reported herein that some section so not have shoulders, is that untrue? My read of the story does not lead me to believe that the rider is a zealot, so you have knowledge of her that contradicts that?

    Clarifications on the facts of the case would surely be appreciated.

    Sometimes you have to take the case as it is, and do not have the luxury of picking a most favorable case.

    But regardless, My own riding is most often not in the take the lane mode, I prefer bike lanes and taking the shoulder to taking the lane, but I would really hate to see the right to take the lane when I deem it necessary removed, so I see this as an important case to help insure that cyclist can take the lane when they feel its necessary for their own safety, and conversely, the right to take the lane should not be abridged because of perception of some motorists that cyclists do no belong on "their highway".
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
    The 4 Rs to save the planet

    "Toes"

  8. #183
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Jacksonville
    My Bikes
    Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er
    Posts
    27,363
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All I know is what I saw in the video, which includes her taking the lane in an area where there is a wide shoulder. She certainly has a choice not to ride in the lane for that portion of her ride.

    She has the choice to ride in the shoulder where she can. If she did that, and only took the lane in areas where there wasn't a reasonable shoulder to ride on, it would certainly improve the appeal of her claim.

    When she takes the lane in an area where there appears to be a safe shoulder to ride on, that where she comes off as a Zealot trying to prove a point.

    And I think you're missing my point, by not using the shoulder where she could, and taking the lane where she doesn't have to, she increases the chances of getting a decision which could impact all of our rights to take the lane when it's necessary.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  9. #184
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    AZ
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
    Posts
    13,964
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I can't make judgement without being the cyclist.

    A couple weeks ago I rode this route:
    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wick...m1!1b1!3e0!5i1

    I stayed in lane to left of rumble strip as the shoulder surface was terrible. It looks ride-able in street view, but in reality at 25mph is much too bumpy, rough, debris, sometimes rumble strip meanders, etc.

    street views:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8323...OdA-JksDQw!2e0

    or
    https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Wick...m1!1b1!3e0!5i1

  10. #185
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    21,579
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    There's a reason that "Justice" is pictured as blindfolded and holding a scale.

    Often, judicial decisions depend not only on strict application of the law, but on balancing competing claims.

    I don't know the real specifics of this case; exactly how rideable or not the shoulder is, the cyclist's exact lane placement, and why she's singled out-- if she is,-- and getting tickets or exactly why she's getting them.

    However the ruling will hopefully turn on the details and specifics, within the context of the law. IMO, regardless of the traffic conditions, it would be wrong to ban the cyclists from this road entirely, but it might be reasonable to instruct her [and others] to use the shoulder when and where it's rideable.

    For those who believe in an absolute right to the road, keep in mind that the government and judges have been restricting those rights "for our own safety" for decades if not longer, and I'd hate to see a broad ruling of this kind.

    I'd also hate to see a blanket ruling in her favor, which may precipitate an alternate approach on the part of the county. Something like "bicycles must use shoulder" or "Slow traffic must use shoulder" is within the discretion of the highway dept at the county or state level, and could represent a setback for every cyclist, not just the one.
    Last edited by FBinNY; 05-07-14 at 02:39 PM.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  11. #186
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    My Bikes
    Mecian
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It seems, given the story as presented, the competing claims that Fb is referring to is a lady wanting to bike to work on an old road with hit and miss shoulders, and drivers who want to proceed as fast as possible. A partial solution such as a judicial order to use the shoulder when possible only creates a situation where the rider can be endlessly ticketed becasue she was not on the shoulder when a LEO thinks she should be. This smacks of the we'll force you into submission by out spending you school of thought.

    I have yet to see any claim of her actually wrongdoing other than the circular logic "well nobody else is ticketed so she must be doing something wrong" school.

    Sometime to preserve justice and freedom we have to tolerate those jerks who are on the fringe, because there is no good line to draw. Those of you who lived through the 60's and 70's need to recall the protest movements over the Vietnam conflict to see this. Clearly some of the protesters were over any line of productive discourse, but the right to speak was preserved.

    Today, we tolerate mentally ill people standing at the curb and shouting profanities, becasue we value freedom and speech and freedom from unreasonable incarceration.

    I guess I will agree to disagree here, and hope for a Solomonic Judge for the court cases.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
    The 4 Rs to save the planet

    "Toes"

  12. #187
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    21,579
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    ...
    I guess I will agree to disagree here, and hope for a Solomonic Judge for the court cases.
    Yes, at least we can agree to hope for a thinking judge.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  13. #188
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    My Bikes
    Sun EZ-Speedster SX, Volae Expedition
    Posts
    447
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    I guess I will agree to disagree here, and hope for a Solomonic Judge for the court cases.
    I think she asked for a jury trial.

  14. #189
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    My Bikes
    Mecian
    Posts
    2,934
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am thinking thats a bad move, but you never know with juries.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
    The 4 Rs to save the planet

    "Toes"

  15. #190
    Cycle Year Round CB HI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    11,420
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    I am thinking thats a bad move, but you never know with juries.
    A story did say she asked for a jury trial. A big mistake in my view. A judge would do a better job of reading the law and knowing she had a right to ride on the road, plus the judge would be worried about being overturned on appeal.
    Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

  16. #191
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    pdx
    My Bikes
    2007 carpe diem frame custom build, trek 7.9 frame custom build, custom built chinese carbon fiber road bike, shopping bike
    Posts
    3,111
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
    A story did say she asked for a jury trial. A big mistake in my view. A judge would do a better job of reading the law and knowing she had a right to ride on the road, plus the judge would be worried about being overturned on appeal.
    lexington is progressive city (esp. by ky standards) with ok bike infrastructure (bronze community) so there is some chance she will get a sympathetic jury.
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  17. #192
    Senior Member trailmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    423
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    lexington is progressive city (esp. by ky standards) with ok bike infrastructure (bronze community) so there is some chance she will get a sympathetic jury.
    The bad new is that this case is being tried in Jessamine county, not Fayette.

  18. #193
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    pdx
    My Bikes
    2007 carpe diem frame custom build, trek 7.9 frame custom build, custom built chinese carbon fiber road bike, shopping bike
    Posts
    3,111
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
    The bad new is that this case is being tried in Jessamine county, not Fayette.
    oops.
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  19. #194
    Senior Member trailmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    423
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    oops.
    You are right though, Lexington is fairly forward thinking. Lexington/Fayette County and Jessamine have been teaming up lately on some transportation planning, especially in the 27 corridor. Hopefully LFUCG will put a little pressure on Jessamine county to do something positive to accommodate all road users instead of giving this lady tickets on her way to work.

  20. #195
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    My Bikes
    Cannondale r600 road.
    Posts
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nicholasville Road 27 has a gift. A shoulder nearly as wide as a lane. If you ride it every workday like I do you will navigate and be watchful for glass and debris. I wish it was litter free, but IT IS VERY PASSABLE.


    In the years I have commuted this route I have had to take the traffic lane only a few times. Then ONLY when I can merge without the 55mph traffic slowing abruptly. My opinion is that this person does this at every intersection when it's legal but not necessary. (Unless you have the neck of an owl, you need a mirror). It scares me, annoys drivers and gets unwanted attention from police. Please stay as far to the right as practicable!

  21. #196
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    My Bikes
    Sun EZ-Speedster SX, Volae Expedition
    Posts
    447
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    According to a post on bentrider online, the trial is being moved up to mid-July.

  22. #197
    Senior Member trailmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    423
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The verdict is in. The judge found the cyclist guilty of several counts of reckless driving.

Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •