Another reckless driving case
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 464
Bikes: Sun EZ-Speedster SX, Volae Expedition
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Another reckless driving case
Jessamine Co. bicyclist charged with reckless driving sparks court case
The rights of bicyclists to share the road with drivers is coming to a head in Jessamine County as the county takes a bicyclist charged with reckless driving to court.
For the past year, Cherokee Schill has commuted from Nicholasville to Lexington on some of the busiest roads in central Kentucky.
...To ride safely, she says it's important to be consistent so drivers know what to expect. She stays in the slow lane, taking a position in the right third of the lane...
For the past year, Cherokee Schill has commuted from Nicholasville to Lexington on some of the busiest roads in central Kentucky.
...To ride safely, she says it's important to be consistent so drivers know what to expect. She stays in the slow lane, taking a position in the right third of the lane...
#2
Banned
More power to the cyclist on her day in court, but after reading about BF member Chipseal's court bout, I fear the worst.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,973
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,677 Times
in
827 Posts
Google maps suggests this more bike-friendly, more pleasant route, only 3 miles longer:
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
Click on the cyclist icon for the bike friendly route.
Plus I see no mirrors, and I think she should use the shoulder when available. This is not the case to hang bicycle rights on.
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
Click on the cyclist icon for the bike friendly route.
Plus I see no mirrors, and I think she should use the shoulder when available. This is not the case to hang bicycle rights on.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 377 Post(s)
Liked 221 Times
in
121 Posts
Google maps suggests this more bike-friendly, more pleasant route, only 3 miles longer:
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
Click on the cyclist icon for the bike friendly route.
Plus I see no mirrors, and I think she should use the shoulder when available. This is not the case to hang bicycle rights on.
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
Click on the cyclist icon for the bike friendly route.
Plus I see no mirrors, and I think she should use the shoulder when available. This is not the case to hang bicycle rights on.
#5
Senior Member
Seems to me that the extreme cases are the ones that define our laws. So this one is just the type to solidify bicyclist rights to use non-limited access roadways. On the other hand, me, I often will ride a mile or two out of my way to be on low traffic roads because I just don't want the stresses of high traffic riding.
But I want the right to ride where it pleases me, not to have where and when I can ride dictated by people calling the sheriffs office complaining that some cyclist is using their road.
But I want the right to ride where it pleases me, not to have where and when I can ride dictated by people calling the sheriffs office complaining that some cyclist is using their road.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
8 Posts
Originally Posted by Jessamine County Attorney Brian Goettl
It just creates a very dangerous situation when you've got somebody on a bike that's difficult to see to begin with, on a very highly travelled road, with signifigant speeds and a lot of people don't pay attention to what they should be while driving, so it all compounds itself
Here's a novel idea: Maybe, just maybe, the sheriffs could start enforcing the traffic laws and banning scofflaw motorists from the roads.
#7
Senior Member
From the article:
"Under Kentucky law, bicycles are defined as vehicles and have the right to use state roadways. State law says slower-moving vehicles, including bicycles, must drive as close as practical to the right hand boundary of the road. It does not mean riding on the shoulder of the road which can often filled with glass, stones, and other debris."
Actually, no, KY statute 189.300 cites 'practicable,' but why should words matter to media...?
"Under Kentucky law, bicycles are defined as vehicles and have the right to use state roadways. State law says slower-moving vehicles, including bicycles, must drive as close as practical to the right hand boundary of the road. It does not mean riding on the shoulder of the road which can often filled with glass, stones, and other debris."
Actually, no, KY statute 189.300 cites 'practicable,' but why should words matter to media...?
#8
Cycle Year Round
Google maps suggests this more bike-friendly, more pleasant route, only 3 miles longer:
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
Click on the cyclist icon for the bike friendly route.
Plus I see no mirrors, and I think she should use the shoulder when available. This is not the case to hang bicycle rights on.
https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAQ
Click on the cyclist icon for the bike friendly route.
Plus I see no mirrors, and I think she should use the shoulder when available. This is not the case to hang bicycle rights on.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Last edited by CbadRider; 04-29-14 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Removed comment calling out another member
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,716
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5787 Post(s)
Liked 2,580 Times
in
1,430 Posts
It seems the prosecutor has turned logic on it's head with his request for a ban based on the theory that other road users are too careless. Maybe he should be seeking to ban those folks who he claims are the problem.
Hopefully the judge will realize he's constrained by the state law which clearly permits her to be there.
This kind of case can be very dangerous, because it can turn simply on the issue of poor representation rather than the law. I hope that a local lawyer versed in traffic law will be handling the case representing not only her rights, but those of other cyclists.
That said, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, and while preserving legal rights to the roads is important, some roads simply aren't good choices. If there are better alternatives it may make sense to use them. But sometimes there aren't good alternatives, or cyclists may be forced to use a major road as a connector for short distances.
As far as the safety issue goes, if the video is an indicator, she's safe because the traffic is slow and can move around her easily enough. IME this kind of congested road is actually safer than an open 4 lane road where speeds are higher.
Hopefully the judge will realize he's constrained by the state law which clearly permits her to be there.
This kind of case can be very dangerous, because it can turn simply on the issue of poor representation rather than the law. I hope that a local lawyer versed in traffic law will be handling the case representing not only her rights, but those of other cyclists.
That said, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, and while preserving legal rights to the roads is important, some roads simply aren't good choices. If there are better alternatives it may make sense to use them. But sometimes there aren't good alternatives, or cyclists may be forced to use a major road as a connector for short distances.
As far as the safety issue goes, if the video is an indicator, she's safe because the traffic is slow and can move around her easily enough. IME this kind of congested road is actually safer than an open 4 lane road where speeds are higher.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#10
Cycle Year Round
From the article:
"Under Kentucky law, bicycles are defined as vehicles and have the right to use state roadways. State law says slower-moving vehicles, including bicycles, must drive as close as practical to the right hand boundary of the road. It does not mean riding on the shoulder of the road which can often filled with glass, stones, and other debris."
Actually, no, KY statute 189.300 cites 'practicable,' but why should words matter to media...?
"Under Kentucky law, bicycles are defined as vehicles and have the right to use state roadways. State law says slower-moving vehicles, including bicycles, must drive as close as practical to the right hand boundary of the road. It does not mean riding on the shoulder of the road which can often filled with glass, stones, and other debris."
Actually, no, KY statute 189.300 cites 'practicable,' but why should words matter to media...?
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 464
Bikes: Sun EZ-Speedster SX, Volae Expedition
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Here is the Kentucky regulation that gives cyclists the option of using the shoulder:
601 KAR 14:020. Bicycle safety standards.
Considering it's a 'may' and the shoulder has rumble strips...
601 KAR 14:020. Bicycle safety standards.
Section 9. Operation of Bicycles. A bicycle shall be operated in the same manner as a motor vehicle except the following traffic conditions shall apply:
(1) A bicycle may be operated on the shoulder of a highway;
(2) If a highway lane is marked for the exclusive use of bicycles, the operator of a bicycle shall use the lane whenever feasible;
(3) Not more than two (2) bicycles shall be operated abreast in a single highway lane. (20 Ky.R. 1508; Am. 2037; eff. 2-10-94.)
(1) A bicycle may be operated on the shoulder of a highway;
(2) If a highway lane is marked for the exclusive use of bicycles, the operator of a bicycle shall use the lane whenever feasible;
(3) Not more than two (2) bicycles shall be operated abreast in a single highway lane. (20 Ky.R. 1508; Am. 2037; eff. 2-10-94.)
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,973
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 1,677 Times
in
827 Posts
There should be a bicycle icon to click to see a bike friendly route.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA, USA
Posts: 1,851
Bikes: 2012 Trek Allant, 2016 Bianchi Volpe Disc
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Personally, I'd be riding in the shoulder on that road, but she's not doing anything illegal. I'm wondering what is the basis of the reckless driving charges.
#14
Cycle Year Round
It seems the prosecutor has turned logic on it's head with his request for a ban based on the theory that other road users are too careless. Maybe he should be seeking to ban those folks who he claims are the problem.
Hopefully the judge will realize he's constrained by the state law which clearly permits her to be there.
This kind of case can be very dangerous, because it can turn simply on the issue of poor representation rather than the law. I hope that a local lawyer versed in traffic law will be handling the case representing not only her rights, but those of other cyclists.
That said, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, and while preserving legal rights to the roads is important, some roads simply aren't good choices. If there are better alternatives it may make sense to use them. But sometimes there aren't good alternatives, or cyclists may be forced to use a major road as a connector for short distances.
As far as the safety issue goes, if the video is an indicator, she's safe because the traffic is slow and can move around her easily enough. IME this kind of congested road is actually safer than an open 4 lane road where speeds are higher.
Hopefully the judge will realize he's constrained by the state law which clearly permits her to be there.
This kind of case can be very dangerous, because it can turn simply on the issue of poor representation rather than the law. I hope that a local lawyer versed in traffic law will be handling the case representing not only her rights, but those of other cyclists.
That said, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, and while preserving legal rights to the roads is important, some roads simply aren't good choices. If there are better alternatives it may make sense to use them. But sometimes there aren't good alternatives, or cyclists may be forced to use a major road as a connector for short distances.
As far as the safety issue goes, if the video is an indicator, she's safe because the traffic is slow and can move around her easily enough. IME this kind of congested road is actually safer than an open 4 lane road where speeds are higher.
Her alternate route is less safe than the highway. Very narrow roads, blind bends, speeding pick up trucks around thosw bends, isolated for a lone cyclist commuting.
https://goo.gl/maps/lgm2X
I really dislike google routing suggestions for cyclists.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#15
Cycle Year Round
There is. But I have rarely liked the cycle route suggestions.
Click my link in the above post, the bicycle icon is in the left panel at the top.
Click my link in the above post, the bicycle icon is in the left panel at the top.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#16
Cycle Year Round
If the want her to give the shoulder a try, they need to clean it weekly.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
I don't like it, not one bit, I hope she wins, but it does illustrate why I make it a conscious effort to not take the lane and avoid busy arterials when there are reasonable options.
#18
Arizona Dessert
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times
in
1,288 Posts
If some one told me to add 6mi to my daily commute I'd tell them to piss off. That is ~20min of my day every day traded for a few seconds of convenience for a motorist rarely.
#19
Cycle Year Round
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,716
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5787 Post(s)
Liked 2,580 Times
in
1,430 Posts
In all honesty, riding this route on a daily basis would have me rethinking my options. But this is America and we have the right to do things that others may choose not to.
As far as the claim that it's a hazard to herself and others goes, the prosecutors argument is actually in her favor because while there have been accidents and deaths, none have involved her or drivers in her immediate vicinity. It might be argued that her presence there makes everybody safer by slowing traffic behind her, and reducing density ahead.
As far as the claim that it's a hazard to herself and others goes, the prosecutors argument is actually in her favor because while there have been accidents and deaths, none have involved her or drivers in her immediate vicinity. It might be argued that her presence there makes everybody safer by slowing traffic behind her, and reducing density ahead.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#21
Senior Member
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
No, I would be riding the shoulder unless it was physically impossible, if I needed to avoid debris I would treat it like a pass. Ideally I try to avoid roads like that in the first place, but unfortunately that's sometimes not possible, so I run puncture resistant tires on my bikes, then I don't have to fret over every little crumb of debris. Luckly, in my area most roads like that have good bike lanes.
#24
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,973
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,536 Times
in
1,045 Posts
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,420
Bikes: Baum Romano, Brompton S2, Homemade Bamboo!
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times
in
129 Posts
No, I'd be over in that shoulder! Maybe I'm worried about the local driver quality (or lack there of), or maybe I'm just plain chicken.
Good to see she has Hi-viz and I hope she has some kick-ass lights (Dinotte?) on the back.