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-   -   Truck Driver Could be Charged After Fight With Bicyclist (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/949515-truck-driver-could-charged-after-fight-bicyclist.html)

I-Like-To-Bike 05-26-14 09:09 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothic Sunshine (Post 16794191)
What? It may just be my inexperience talking, but I haven't seen any bikes with both coaster and hand brakes on one frame. I typically use just hand brakes (yea, I know that's odd for a cruiser rider like me), and my rear wheels never come anywhere close to leaving the pavement, regardless of whether I trigger just one or trigger both at the same time.

Now you have. My 1972 Raleigh Sports with 3speed IGH and coaster brake came equipped with front handbrake. So did my 1976 Raleigh Superbe, both bought new in Philadelphia.

My current bikes bought new in Germany in 1999 and 2000 were equipped with IGH coaster brakes and front hand brakes, as well as the bikes I bought for my family.

Consider yourself educated.

Gothic Sunshine 05-26-14 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike (Post 16794256)
Now you have. My 1972 Raleigh Sports with 3speed IGH and coaster brake came equipped with front handbrake. So did my 1976 Raleigh Superbe, both bought new in Philadelphia.

My current bikes bought new in Germany in 1999 and 2000 were equipped with IGH coaster brakes and front hand brakes, as well as the bikes I bought for my family.

Consider yourself educated.

When browsing for bikes, I always see front and rear handbrakes or coaster brakes, but not both or anything with only a front handbrake.

Then again, I'm 23 and I didn't learn how to ride a bike until right before I turned 21, so I'm not really a font of knowledge.

I-Like-To-Bike 05-26-14 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothic Sunshine (Post 16794274)
When browsing for bikes, I always see front and rear handbrakes or coaster brakes, but not both or anything with only a front handbrake.

Then again, I'm 23 and I didn't learn how to ride a bike until right before I turned 21, so I'm not really a font of knowledge.

Glad to help you gain some useful knowledge.

bmontgomery87 05-27-14 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SevenSpokes (Post 16784470)


At the end there, he could have gone right, instead of left when he came in contact with the back of the driver's truck. Right or wrong, if some idiot buzzes me, I'm not getting any closer to him. A jerk of the steering wheel, and I could be under a wheel...

If you pick a fight with a bear (driving a car) enough times, eventually one is going to get out and bite you. Document, video, report.


Agreed.
The driver was indeed a jerk, but the whole mess could have been avoided had the cyclist not tried so vehemently to hold his lane position, and then ran into the back of the truck. He could have slowed and moved right, or even gone left, flipped the guy off and called him a prick.
But continuing at speed into the rear or the truck was just stupid.

I get cut off often, I usually give an obscene gesture and just carry on, no point in getting yourself hurt by holding lane position and having a pissing contest with a vehicle.

Chris516 05-27-14 12:23 PM

For me, it is 'a matter of definition', as to whether a motorist is doing something stupid. When I was bumped from behind earlier this year, I didn't crash. I recovered by going into the other(not opposing) lane. To me, that was egregious stupidity on the part of the driver. That was on a 30mph four-lane blacktop.

Compared to yesterday. I was on a 30mph two-lane blacktop going 20mph. A motorist crossed the double-yellow line to pass me, so they could make a right turn. Because they didn't want to wait for the turn. After passing me, they got two car-lengths ahead of me, when they made the turn. So, I didn't feel the need to get ticked off. It wasn't a right-hook, by any stretch of the imagination.

JoeyBike 05-27-14 12:56 PM

Oh man, that (OP Video) happens to me almost every day. There were so many ways the cyclist could have avoided contact with that truck starting with letting the truck race up to the stop sign from the very start of the video. Just let him go. Easy. OR...notice the stop sign coming up and realize the truck will at least be slowing down when he gets there was another opportunity to avoid the rear bumper by just slowing down a little sooner and letting the truck go past. Or...how about using the empty space to the right of the truck at the stop sign. Sure it had diagonal lines painted on it but still way better than running into a truck. OR...notice the truck roaring up behind him through a rear-view mirror and sprint up to the stop sign while controlling the entire lane.

If I'm the judge:

Motorist gets cited for illegal pass less than 3 feet and for damage to bike due to enraged bike toss, and enrollment in a certified anger management program that he must complete OR he can pick up trash along the highway for ten weekends.

Cyclist gets to keep his "following too close" ticket and any damages to his bike caused by the impact. Looks to me like he hit the truck on purpose as there were so many ways out of that crash and a ton of warning that the truck was determined to pass him. Then the truck stopped for the stop sign, not apparently in any attempt to create a collision.

HeHe...Judge Joey. That would be a hoot wouldn't it?

shipwreck 05-27-14 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmontgomery87 (Post 16795634)
Agreed.

I get cut off often, I usually give an obscene gesture and just carry on, no point in getting yourself hurt by holding lane position and having a pissing contest with a vehicle.


Of course there are sometimes consequences for giving a gesture or yelling. The other day a bunch of couples on motorcycles passed me, the second on a trike. There was stopped traffic ahead, and the trike rider put their right rear tire over the line, right in front of me moments after passing, and hit the brakes. I went skidded around and yelled my disapproval, right away heard the lead rider *** his bike after me on the side of the road by stopped traffic. I stopped, and we had a pretty good face to face, as it was his wife who was on the trike and he did not like my choice of words. It was as close to a fight as I have come in a while. Interestingly, the rest of his group never got off their bikes, as they must have seen what actually happened. After I got back on and rode down the road, he continued to ride by me, telling me he was gonna kick my asss. Eventually I pulled back over, prepared to actually have to defend myself, but they rode on.

I usually stop with traffic on the main road so they don't have to pass me twice, the only reason I rode on was the fact that I passed the trike anyway while avoiding it. Guess I will have to remember not to yell at big bad bikers.

bmontgomery87 05-27-14 01:54 PM

As someone who used to ride a sportbike, and spent a lot of time with "big bad bikers", most of them are little insecure men with something to prove. Hence spending 20 grand on a motorcycle, making it as loud as possible, and wearing a silly outfit to ride around.

dynaryder 05-27-14 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothic Sunshine (Post 16794191)
What? It may just be my inexperience talking, but I haven't seen any bikes with both coaster and hand brakes on one frame.

Not super common,but they're out there. My Swobo Otis and Kona Dr Good were both disc front/coaster rear. Here's one that's currently available:
Detroit Bikes

genec 05-27-14 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16796050)
Oh man, that (OP Video) happens to me almost every day. There were so many ways the cyclist could have avoided contact with that truck starting with letting the truck race up to the stop sign from the very start of the video. Just let him go. Easy. OR...notice the stop sign coming up and realize the truck will at least be slowing down when he gets there was another opportunity to avoid the rear bumper by just slowing down a little sooner and letting the truck go past. Or...how about using the empty space to the right of the truck at the stop sign. Sure it had diagonal lines painted on it but still way better than running into a truck. OR...notice the truck roaring up behind him through a rear-view mirror and sprint up to the stop sign while controlling the entire lane.

If I'm the judge:

Motorist gets cited for illegal pass less than 3 feet and for damage to bike due to enraged bike toss, and enrollment in a certified anger management program that he must complete OR he can pick up trash along the highway for ten weekends.

Cyclist gets to keep his "following too close" ticket and any damages to his bike caused by the impact. Looks to me like he hit the truck on purpose as there were so many ways out of that crash and a ton of warning that the truck was determined to pass him. Then the truck stopped for the stop sign, not apparently in any attempt to create a collision.

HeHe...Judge Joey. That would be a hoot wouldn't it?

Joey... you got my vote... that all sounded pretty damn fair. I might also make the motorist read the signs out loud leading up to that area of confrontation... you know, the signs that said "cyclist may use full lane." Other than that... sounds about right.

I like that part about the cyclist covering any damages his bike may have caused. That's a hoot!

JoeyBike 05-27-14 07:10 PM

Thanks. A rare day on BF when someone thinks i am level-headed. Even more rare to say so in public.

Metal Man 05-28-14 07:46 AM

Joey, on many points you may be right, but the cyclist had intensions of stopping at the stop sign, not 30 feet before it. Yes, maybe he could have moved over or done other things differently. I know there are many times after the fact that I wished I had done things differently. In the heat of the moment we don't always make the best choices. Lets face it the man was being threatened and attacked.
If this was a two lane road, two lanes in one direction, and the truck pulled that move on a car into the right lane would you see that as case of cutting in front and brake checking?

JoeyBike 05-28-14 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man (Post 16798381)
...the cyclist had intentions of stopping at the stop sign, not 30 feet before it. Yes, maybe he could have moved over or done other things differently.

The truck is right next to him for 10 full seconds! 10 seconds is an eternity in my world when it comes to making decisions in traffic. Unless this was the cyclist's first day on a bike in traffic he has to know what is going to happen at that stop sign. Or at least assume the worst and be prepared, or as they say in Drivers Ed..."leave yourself an out".

This exact same thing happens to me at least once a week. 9 out of 10 times the vehicle will squeeze me off the road (if I let them) in order to not be straddling lanes at the stop sign. The other 1 in 10 times the passing vehicle stops at the sign in the oncoming lane! I often wished that another motorist in a big rush would be zipping around the corner and narrowly miss a head-on collision to wake that silly driver up to their nincompoopness. I admit that about 1 in 100 motorists will patiently follow me to the stop sign and waits behind me until I get past it same as if I were on a motorcycle.

My remedy for this everyday occurrence is my rear-view mirror. I notice the car coming up behind me a block away. I look at what is up ahead. It soon becomes painfully obvious that we will both arrive at the stop sign around the same time. I watch the approaching car. If the driver side wheels crosses the center line, I just slow down and let them pass and be on their way. If they follow me I STAND UP on the pedals as a CLEAR SIGN that I am accelerating and get up to that stop sign as fast as I can. It's just not that hard when you take cycling seriously, pay attention, and have some shred of intuitiveness in traffic.

The truck driver is likely just mindlessly doing his thing as so many of them do. The cyclist is also mindlessly doing his thing as so many cyclists do. BAM! "Whaaaaa!"

The whole event could have EASILY been avoided by a competent, alert cyclist. We can only change ourselves, we can't make motorists aware of every nuance of cycling around traffic. Their minds are not on us, just on where they are going or some phone conversation.

Pibber 05-28-14 12:03 PM

I'm saddened by some of what i've just read. This cyclist did one thing wrong; he gave up lane position. That driver is clearly in the wrong and saying anything different is akin to blaming the victim.

Frankly, him running into the rear of the truck could be far safer than trying to swerve away, and running into someone or something else. But, in all honesty, being cut off and then having the driver obviously slam on his brakes the way he did shows that this driver was all too aware of what was going on.

JoeyBike 05-28-14 01:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16799395)
That driver is clearly in the wrong and saying anything different is akin to blaming the victim.

People can become victims of their own incompetence too you know.

Drivers are often in the wrong around me - every single day and usually more than once each day. Most motorists in my community are completely ignorant of my needs as a cyclist and many are totally apathetic regarding my needs. I have the choice to ride my bike or not under such a situation of mass stupidity. I choose to do so. Now I have automatically set myself up to be a victim of idiot motorists. I know very well what is in store for me when I throw my leg over that top tube and put my weight on a pedal. I ACCEPT the danger - just like signing a contract - when that bike begins to move under my will. I am setting myself up to be a certain kind of victim.

OK, after I get rolling I now have some choices. I can ride totally oblivious to my surroundings TRUSTING that all of the idiot motorists out there are going to look out for me - a FACT that I know is far from truth and reality. OR...I can take actions to minimize the chances of me becoming a "victim" of things I already KNOW are going to happen to me out there. I certainly WISH the world was perfect, but I do not ride my bike under false expectation, wishes, or prayers. I take what little power I have and use it to my best advantage in an effort to NOT become a "victim" in a dangerous and idiotic world.

So, the fact that our video "victim" has accepted the contract by riding his bicycle in traffic already sets him up to be a victim. The fact that he made no effort to avoid a confrontation with a truck, which he certainly could have several ways (I mentioned above in another post) simply assured that he would be victimized. We can't just ride as if nothing is going on around us. The cyclist in the video had 10 FREAKING SECONDS to wake up and avoid being a victim. "I have my right to this lane" is a hard-headed notion when the fact on the ground weighs 2.5 tons and is made of steel and driven by an idiot. Just stop pedaling and let the truck go by. God, it is so easy.

Yes, the driver was in the wrong UP TO the point of the rear-end collision at a perfectly visible stop sign. Then the victim, who was being squeezed out of his lane, becomes the stubborn knucklehead.

And how on earth does the cyclist get from his position in this picture to BEHIND THE FREAKING TRUCK??? Well, the cyclist did that on purpose to bump the truck to make a point in my opinion. He was totally in the clear, then went out of his way to get behind the stopping truck.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=383607

Truck driver and cyclist are both jerks. And you know what happens when the unstoppable jerk meets the immovable jerk? Drama.

Pibber 05-28-14 01:21 PM

That was a lot of nonsense.

genec 05-28-14 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16799629)

Drivers are often in the wrong around me - every single day and usually more than once each day. Most motorists in my community are completely ignorant of my needs as a cyclist and many are totally apathetic regarding my needs. I have the choice to ride my bike or not under such a situation of mass stupidity. I choose to do so. Now I have automatically set myself up to be a victim of idiot motorists. I know very well what is in store for me when I throw my leg over that top tube and put my weight on a pedal. I ACCEPT the danger - just like signing a contract - when that bike begins to move under my will. I am setting myself up to be a certain kind of victim.

While this may well be true... don't go about perpetuating this thought... the LEOs and Drivers already have this fully in mind when they see us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16799629)


OK, after I get rolling I now have some choices. I can ride totally oblivious to my surroundings TRUSTING that all of the idiot motorists out there are going to look out for me - a FACT that I know is far from truth and reality. OR...I can take actions to minimize the chances of me becoming a "victim" of things I already KNOW are going to happen to me out there. I certainly WISH the world was perfect, but I do not ride my bike under false expectation, wishes, or prayers. I take what little power I have and use it to my best advantage in an effort to NOT become a "victim" in a dangerous and idiotic world.

Well, golly if all the drivers out there were indeed following the "rules of the road for drivers of vehicles..." why would you be a "victim?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16799629)

So, the fact that our video "victim" has accepted the contract by riding his bicycle in traffic already sets him up to be a victim. The fact that he made no effort to avoid a confrontation with a truck, which he certainly could have several ways (I mentioned above in another post) simply assured that he would be victimized. We can't just ride as if nothing is going on around us. The cyclist in the video had 10 FREAKING SECONDS to wake up and avoid being a victim. "I have my right to this lane" is a hard-headed notion when the fact on the ground weighs 2.5 tons and is made of steel and driven by an idiot. Just stop pedaling and let the truck go by. God, it is so easy.

Yes, the driver was in the wrong UP TO the point of the rear-end collision at a perfectly visible stop sign. Then the victim, who was being squeezed out of his lane, becomes the stubborn knucklehead.

And how on earth does the cyclist get from his position in this picture to BEHIND THE FREAKING TRUCK. Well, the cyclist did that on purpose to bump the truck to make a point in my opinion. He was totally in the clear, then went out of his way to get behind the stopping truck.

Truck driver and cyclist are both jerks. And you know what happens when the unstoppable object meets the immovable mass? Drama.

I have a feeling you hit the nail on the head in these last few paragraphs... however, as both share blame, both deserve recognition of said blame... thus the LEO failed to uphold his duties by only ticketing the cyclist. (thus returning back to the views expressed in the first paragraph... which is false really, unless we all consider ourselves voluntary victims EVERYTIME we hit the roads either in car or on bike)

Pibber 05-28-14 01:39 PM

If you take the time to.watch the vid, the rider holds his line, and at the end of the footage you can also.see that the truck has pulled into the marked off area cutting the rider off. He swerves when he hammers down on his brakes, which you can hear. He did those two things because the driver overtakes, illegally, and then slams on his brakes at the stop sign. Simple observation will save your unnecessary pontification.

JoeyBike 05-28-14 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16799768)
If you take the time to.watch the vid, the rider holds his line, and at the end of the footage you can also.see that the truck has pulled into the marked off area cutting the rider off. He swerves when he hammers down on his brakes, which you can hear. He did those two things because the driver overtakes, illegally, and then slams on his brakes at the stop sign. Simple observation will save your unnecessary pontification.

Does this^^ NEVER happen to you? Usually, because I tend to ride my bike at 20MPH in a 20MPH zone, the overtaking (and speeding) car/truck behind me has to go EVEN FASTER to get around me before coming to the stop sign. Then, in order to NOT be straddling lanes at the intersection up ahead at said stop sign, the motorist - who just gunned it to pass me - is going to jerk over right in front of me and SLAP ON THE BRAKES at the same time. I don't even get to enjoy the little striped escape route to the right (seen in the OP video) and STILL, one thousand times a year, I never hit the vehicle. Why not? Been answered up above already.

One other very important note that might just save some lives here:

When a cyclist is behind a motor vehicle operator's seat, the cyclist no longer exists in that driver's world. Ignore that if you want or take it to the bank. Your choice.

Pibber 05-28-14 02:07 PM

I have no faith in your powers of observation if you haven't even noticed that the street this occured on is a one way street. In other words, the driver didn't need to swerve back over into any lane, he simply cut off the cyclist.

JoeyBike 05-28-14 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16799908)
I have no faith in your powers of observation if you haven't even noticed that the street this occured on is a one way street. In other words, the driver didn't need to swerve back over into any lane, he simply cut off the cyclist.

I did notice that fact and it makes no difference. No motorist wants to be caught straddling two lanes at a stop sign or red light. It's ingrained in their DNA. It could be a 6-lane highway or a 2-lane one way street. They never, ever straddle two lanes at a stop. If you live to be 500 years old you will never see that happen.

OK...Now you know. Just saved you a front wheel one day.

Pibber 05-28-14 02:17 PM

What are you talking about? There's no lane to straddle, so that makes a huge difference. And, the rest of that nonsense is completely superfluous to the point at hand. The driver was wrong every step of the way. That the cyclist didn't do what you would have is in no way germain to the discussion. The overtaking vehicle is bound by certain codes of legal conduct, none of which this driver followed.

genec 05-28-14 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16799930)
I did notice that fact and it makes no difference. No motorist wants to be caught straddling two lanes at a stop sign or red light. It's ingrained in their DNA. It could be a 6-lane highway or a 2-lane one way street. They never, ever straddle two lanes at a stop. If you live to be 500 years old you will never see that happen.

OK...Now you know. Just saved you a front wheel one day.

Damn, I must be 600 hundred years old... I've seen motorists rush by me on a race to the stop sign only to stop while straddling two lanes... the other lane being oncoming to the driver... most foolish position I have ever seen, and yet the driver just "had" to pass me on this road... like it was some duty of his... sigh.

I swear I think I have seen just about every stupid driver trick out there... but no doubt there is still something they can surprise me with.

prathmann 05-28-14 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16800039)
Damn, I must be 600 hundred years old... I've seen motorists rush by me on a race to the stop sign only to stop while straddling two lanes... the other lane being oncoming to the driver... most foolish position I have ever seen, and yet the driver just "had" to pass me on this road... like it was some duty of his... sigh.

Agreed. I've had the same thing happen on the neighborhood streets just a couple blocks from my home - even had them come to the stop sign almost entirely in the oncoming lane.

kickstart 05-28-14 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16799954)
What are you talking about? There's no lane to straddle, so that makes a huge difference. And, the rest of that nonsense is completely superfluous to the point at hand. The driver was wrong every step of the way. That the cyclist didn't do what you would have is in no way germain to the discussion. The overtaking vehicle is bound by certain codes of legal conduct, none of which this driver followed.

It doesn't matter how wrong the other guy is, its always our duty and obligation to make up for their wrongdoing or we're wrong too.
Standing our ground, holding our line, guarding our right of way are all contrary the the basic rules of the road.

Obligation's always come before rights.


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