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-   -   Truck Driver Could be Charged After Fight With Bicyclist (http://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/949515-truck-driver-could-charged-after-fight-bicyclist.html)

FenderTL5 05-28-14 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16800039)
I've seen motorists rush by me on a race to the stop sign only to stop while straddling two lanes... the other lane being oncoming to the driver..

I've seen that as well. A little while back, during cold weather, a SUV pulled out to pass me just prior to a 4-way stop we were approaching without adequate room to complete the pass. The driver came to a kinda-stop on the wrong side of the road, then raced through ahead of an oncoming vehicle who had already stopped ahead of both of us.

genec 05-28-14 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prathmann (Post 16800052)
Agreed. I've had the same thing happen on the neighborhood streets just a couple blocks from my home - even had them come to the stop sign almost entirely in the oncoming lane.

Exactly... had a guy one time rush past me to get to the red light... only to be blocked by another vehicle already waiting there. I pulled up to the left of the passing driver and waited for the light to change green... just like he had to. I went straight (as indicated by my somewhat left position) while the driver finally got to turn right. Funny, watching him just sit there...

CB HI 05-28-14 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16800039)
Damn, I must be 600 hundred years old... I've seen motorists rush by me on a race to the stop sign only to stop while straddling two lanes... the other lane being oncoming to the driver... most foolish position I have ever seen, and yet the driver just "had" to pass me on this road... like it was some duty of his... sigh.

I swear I think I have seen just about every stupid driver trick out there... but no doubt there is still something they can surprise me with.

Same here. I lost count of how many times motorist could not complete that all consuming pass before they got caught on the center line at the stop sign, looking foolish.

CB HI 05-28-14 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16800066)
Exactly... had a guy one time rush past me to get to the red light... only to be blocked by another vehicle already waiting there. I pulled up to the left of the passing driver and waited for the light to change green... just like he had to. I went straight (as indicated by my somewhat left position) while the driver finally got to turn right. Funny, watching him just sit there...

And most sit there looking dead ahead, pretending the cyclist does not exist. Very funny to watch.

JoeyBike 05-28-14 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16799954)
The overtaking vehicle is bound by certain codes of legal conduct, none of which this driver followed.

Only the 3-foot passing law far as I know, if that law is in effect at that location.

The truck was not following too close that we can tell, he probably wasn't speeding either as he paced the cyclist for a few seconds before deciding to go-go-go. No law against squeezing in front of another vehicle either. People frequently do that to me on the freeway when I am driving a car - some even give a signal first. I just let up on the accelerator and hover my foot over the brake pedal. Once in front of me it's my problem to stay off their rear bumper.

So I agree the truck passed "too close" by law (although I am not phased by that type of pass). Am I missing something else other than a cyclist crashing into the back of a vehicle stopped at a stop sign with ample space to avoid that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16800039)
... I've seen motorists rush by me on a race to the stop sign only to stop while straddling two lanes...

Do you ASSUME they are going to straddle the lanes? Or do you prepare for them to jerk back into "your" lane? Do you roll up next to them at the stop sign, or wait behind them until they cross or turn? I am really curious here. Do you ever veer left to hit their rear bumpers?

Pibber 05-28-14 03:37 PM

Saueezing in on the cyclist obviously violates the three foot law, which is in effect here. You're being intentionally obtuse, and you are unable to approach this with any objectivity. The driver clearly cuts across the cyclists line as he ends up in the marked off area to the right of the street. Whatever your experiences or assumptions are, they do not matter here. The driver doesn't pass properly and then cuts off the cyclist. You cannot refute these things. Everything else is supposition, superfluous, and editorializing.

Pibber 05-28-14 03:47 PM

In addition, in the district it is a moving violation to overtake a vehicle moving in the same direction less than 100ft from an intersection. It is also a moving violation to overtake until you have safely cleared the vehicle being overtaken. Based on this video, the driver has definitely overtaken unsafely.

JoeyBike 05-28-14 04:01 PM

Agreed. Or to put it another way:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickstart (Post 16800061)
It doesn't matter how wrong the other guy is, its always our duty and obligation to make up for their wrongdoing or we're wrong [dead]too. Standing our ground, holding our line, guarding our right of way are all contrary the the basic rules of the road[survival].

Obligation's always come before rights[death].

[JoeyBike edit]

JoeyBike 05-28-14 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16800260)
...in the district it is a moving violation to overtake a vehicle moving in the same direction less than 100ft from an intersection.

OK...you taught me something new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16800260)
It is also a moving violation to overtake until you have safely cleared the vehicle being overtaken. Based on this video, the driver has definitely overtaken unsafely.

Is there a definite measurement that can be used here or is it subjective? The "safely cleared" part I mean. What if the cyclist missed the collision by a few inches? Everything else being the same, do you think he could win a case against the guy for "safely cleared the vehicle" law if he had avoided a collision and police attention at the scene?

I guess we will find out if they publish the results of the video review. I hope someone posts that here if it goes public.

dynaryder 05-28-14 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16800154)
Only the 3-foot passing law far as I know, if that law is in effect at that location.

We do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16800260)
In addition, in the district it is a moving violation to overtake a vehicle moving in the same direction less than 100ft from an intersection.

Additionally,I believe the Bicycle Safety Amendment Act of 2013 is also applicable here.

Pibber 05-28-14 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynaryder (Post 16800477)



Additionally,I believe the Bicycle Safety Amendment Act of 2013 is also applicable here.

Yeah, at minimum failing to yield ROW to the cyclist, could possibly have a case for the collision statute, as well.

Thanks man, I'd forgotten about the new laws.

genec 05-29-14 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16800154)
Do you ASSUME they are going to straddle the lanes? Or do you prepare for them to jerk back into "your" lane? Do you roll up next to them at the stop sign, or wait behind them until they cross or turn? I am really curious here. Do you ever veer left to hit their rear bumpers?

I never ASSUME they are going to do anything predictable... the moment they decide to pass me by crossing the double yellow line while approaching a stop, they are in violation of the law and common sense... there is no way to predict what they might do... Drivers could suddenly swerve back into the lane where I am... and kill me and say I swerved, or they could change their minds and go back behind me, or they might choose to run the red light/stop sign... or who knows... as the fact is they have thrown the rules and predictability out the window. So I pretty much have to do whatever is safest for me... which due to the mass and speed of the motor vehicle and driver acting in an unpredictable manner means that I tend to take some form of evasive action... slowing, moving further away, etc... which no doubt is what the driver wants... control of "their" road through bullying actions.

Ultimately I continue on my way riding in a predictive manner with destination positioning... which means that if I am going straight, I might very well end up right behind the motor vehicle, or to their left... depending on what the driver does in the several seconds they choose to be unpredictable.

I have had motorists make left turns from the right lane right in front of me, straddle the double yellow, end up in the opposite lane, end up blocked by other right turning cars, swerve suddenly around me to run lights, and yes, even hit me... all manner of things... none of which I can ASSUME anything about, at the time.

Chris516 05-29-14 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16800154)
Only the 3-foot passing law far as I know, if that law is in effect at that location.

The truck was not following too close that we can tell, he probably wasn't speeding either as he paced the cyclist for a few seconds before deciding to go-go-go. No law against squeezing in front of another vehicle either. People frequently do that to me on the freeway when I am driving a car - some even give a signal first. I just let up on the accelerator and hover my foot over the brake pedal. Once in front of me it's my problem to stay off their rear bumper.

So I agree the truck passed "too close" by law (although I am not phased by that type of pass). Am I missing something else other than a cyclist crashing into the back of a vehicle stopped at a stop sign with ample space to avoid that?

The law is in effect, at that location. There is no real way, to tell if the truck was following too closely in the first place. Because, The same eyewitnesses who said the cyclist was following too closely, would probably say the driver was not following too closely to start off with.

Two motorized vehicles(motorcycles' notwithstanding) doing that on the interstate, is far different from, a motorized vehicle and a cyclist doing the same thing on city streets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 16800154)
Do you ASSUME they are going to straddle the lanes? Or do you prepare for them to jerk back into "your" lane? Do you roll up next to them at the stop sign, or wait behind them until they cross or turn? I am really curious here. Do you ever veer left to hit their rear bumpers?

The only time motorists' don't straddle the lanes around here when passing, is when they are not given the opportunity to straddle the lane. By 'taking the lane'.

Chris516 05-30-14 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genec (Post 16802284)
I never ASSUME they are going to do anything predictable... the moment they decide to pass me by crossing the double yellow line while approaching a stop, they are in violation of the law and common sense... there is no way to predict what they might do... Drivers could suddenly swerve back into the lane where I am... and kill me and say I swerved, or they could change their minds and go back behind me, or they might choose to run the red light/stop sign... or who knows... as the fact is they have thrown the rules and predictability out the window. So I pretty much have to do whatever is safest for me... which due to the mass and speed of the motor vehicle and driver acting in an unpredictable manner means that I tend to take some form of evasive action... slowing, moving further away, etc... which no doubt is what the driver wants... control of "their" road through bullying actions.

Ultimately I continue on my way riding in a predictive manner with destination positioning... which means that if I am going straight, I might very well end up right behind the motor vehicle, or to their left... depending on what the driver does in the several seconds they choose to be unpredictable.

I have had motorists make left turns from the right lane right in front of me, straddle the double yellow, end up in the opposite lane, end up blocked by other right turning cars, swerve suddenly around me to run lights, and yes, even hit me... all manner of things... none of which I can ASSUME anything about, at the time.

Same here. That is why I 'take the lane'. I don't believe, that they won't do something stupid. Just the other day, I was on a two-lane blacktop approaching a small rise in the road that blocked the view to see on-coming traffic. I was going 20mph in a 30mph zone. I could hear the motorist behind me wanting to pass me bad. But I wasn't going to move over, so they could be stupid.

Doohickie 05-31-14 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16799395)
I'm saddened by some of what i've just read. This cyclist did one thing wrong; he gave up lane position. That driver is clearly in the wrong and saying anything different is akin to blaming the victim.

Frankly, him running into the rear of the truck could be far safer than trying to swerve away, and running into someone or something else. But, in all honesty, being cut off and then having the driver obviously slam on his brakes the way he did shows that this driver was all too aware of what was going on.

The cyclist is by no means an innocent victim in this video. I side with Joeybike. He should have left himself an out, and he simply didn't.

Mark Stone 05-31-14 11:40 PM

I think another thread links to the whole video. The vehicle driver was a jerk, yes, but the bike rider could have handled this a lot differently. If it was me, as soon as the SUV crowded up next to me I would have been on my brakes letting him pull ahead. I don't think I would have rode up behind him like this cyclist did - I would have waited him out, and if he got out of the truck I would have ridden away (sidewalk? Turn around and go the other way? Something - - ) instead of confronting him. Sometimes it's better for cyclists just to let it go, even if it hurts your pride (and you know you're in the right).

Pibber 06-01-14 04:17 AM

Neither of you can make a case that supports any action against the cyclist. He did nothing wrong. The driver cut him off, intentionally, and you can see that when the truck stops in the marked off area to the right of the road.

The only facts germaine to this event are what happened in the vid. What you would, or would not, have done does not matter.

howsteepisit 06-01-14 09:55 AM

Was the driver ever charged?

I-Like-To-Bike 06-01-14 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16810270)
The only facts germaine to this event are what happened in the vid. What you would, or would not, have done does not matter.

The only facts germane to a legal dispute are those videos edited and posted later on the Internet by one party to the event? Germane to whom the police department, the courts or BF posters, or all of the above?

I hadn't heard before of that legal or BF debate/discussion ruling.

Mark Stone 06-01-14 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pibber (Post 16810270)
Neither of you can make a case that supports any action against the cyclist.

No one is even trying to "make a case" against the cyclist. Some of us are saying we would have handled this driver differently.
Quote:

He did nothing wrong.
When riding. However, becoming confrontational against a driver clearly out of control of his emotions was probably not the best idea.
Quote:

The driver cut him off, intentionally, and you can see that when the truck stops in the marked off area to the right of the road.

The only facts germaine to this event are what happened in the vid. What you would, or would not, have done does not matter.
Of course it does. This is an internet forum, not a court of law. Many times, on city streets, we can save a lot of heartache by tempering our responses to aggressive drivers, especially those who are clearly out of control (emotionally) like this driver was. Confronting him and arguing with him accomplished nothing, and we as urban cyclists can learn from this. :)

JoeyBike 06-01-14 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tractorlegs (Post 16811404)
...we can save a lot of heartache by tempering our responses to aggressive drivers...

Or a literal bullet through the heart. In New Orleans most motorists are packing heat. I have no intention of going toe-to-toe with an armed-deranged, or simply armed and histrionic imbecile. And since I rarely ride for recreation, I am generally trying to GET SOMEWHERE in a timely manner with few spare moments to discuss how ignorant every irate motorist is at curbside.


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