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  1. #51
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
    I'm going with JoeyBike and ride with 520 lumen flashlight. I have considered pepper spray.
    I going with the light because it's not a weapon, but with a lanyard on it, could be used like blackjack. Strobe setting works well and can disorientate somebody. I will use it for daytime headlamp as well.
    A bright light is a GREAT tactical weapon! There are even powerful but small flashlights with a mode called "disorienting strobe" which is a super-fast blinking mode. Cops and military all use light as passive weaponry. There are plenty of sources online to research the pros and cons of using light as a tactical weapon. Good stuff to know beforehand.

    Good choice. Glad I could give you some ideas!
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  2. #52
    Senior Member trailangel's Avatar
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    I already have the light and mount, but just now starting to use in the daytime.
    When I say the light "is not a weapon".. I mean it's normal function is not weaponry, if you follow me.
    So you are not purposely arming yourself, which some LE might frown upon.
    Kind of like carrying a baseball bat in your car.. you would need to carry the ball and the glove with it or it might look a bit suspicious.
    Likewise a blackjack is illegal, but flashlight could creatively take it's place.
    Have talked to off duty cops about pepper spray, they saying it doesn't work on some people....they spray them with the stream and the perps open their mouth and drink it and laugh at them. I guess too much smoking on the glass pipe........

  3. #53
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
    When I say the light "is not a weapon".. I mean it's normal function is not weaponry, if you follow me.
    So you are not purposely arming yourself, which some LE might frown upon.
    I read somewhere that even if a cop hits a perp with his flashlight and was not officially "certified" to use a flashlight as a weapon that the cop could get in trouble if some judge wanted to press the law.

    Have talked to off duty cops about pepper spray, they saying it doesn't work on some people...
    I have heard same.
    "For all we know his skills may be excellent, allowing him to ride like an idiot without actually being one." - FBinNY

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    Massachusetts will be changing their laws regarding the purchase of pepper spray for personal defense, so that an FID license/card will no longer be required. You'll have to be over 18 and only a licensed seller can sell it. While the bill is advertised as being for women's sake, men sometimes get mugged too. Regardless, has anyone actually ever used the stuff? I've been looking at various products and there are so many choices. It's hard to know what's really good and easy to use. I may be purchasing some for the family.
    Good lord, living in a place that previously you had to be licensed to purchase pepperspray is a travesty of freedom. I'm glad for you that you no longer have to be licensed to carrry it for self defense.

    As to using pepper spray for defense against dogs while riding a bike, you better be prepared to stop and dismount and then use the spray, in my experience if you can get a good hit in the face,eyes, nose the dog will react giving you time to ride away.

    One poster showed a can of fox spray, it is good hot stuff we issue it for duty. (cop work)

    The same can be said for a human attacker, you would almost certainly have to dismount to spray effectively, It has to hit eyes, nose and mouth, in my experience a full face one or two second burst will effectively take the fight out of 98 % of the asshats who would attack you. There are a percentage of people who it affects less, but eyes, nose, mouth usually does the trick.

    As a former police dog handler and having a good working knowlege of dog psychology most yard dogs will retreat if you stop, shout, and pick the bike up and charge them. I chase the little bastads so hard they tuck tail and run like the cowards they are back into the yard.

    Or a handfull of road side gravel flung with accuracy works too.

    If you try to outrun them and they can catch you you are likely to get bit from behind.

    Pit Bulls and some other breeds can be different, if the shout and challenge does not work to cause them to retreat I am fully prepared to beat their heads into a bloody pulp with my bike and kick their carcas into the middle of the road to be flattened into buzzard bait.

    As others here have said, keep it in a jersey pocket or shorts pocket incase you are thrown away from the bike by a human attacker.

  5. #55
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    best reply yet. I love Texas. hey what do you think about the open carry extremists running rallies with machine guns in common retail stores and restaurants? up here they just look like nuts and they would never get away with that shenanigans
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  6. #56
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    hey check this out

    The TSA Blog: TSA Week in Review ? 36 Firearms Discovered This Week (33 Loaded)

    scroll down to Miscellaneous Prohibited Items
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    best reply yet. I love Texas. hey what do you think about the open carry extremists running rallies with machine guns in common retail stores and restaurants? up here they just look like nuts and they would never get away with that shenanigans
    AFAIK, none of them are carrying "machine guns." They are, generally, carrying semi-automatic **** style weapons. Personally, I don't care for their tactics. I am a big supporter of concealed carry and have been for all of my 47 year law enforcement career. BTW, when I ride I usually have a Kimber .45acp on me but that is more force of habit than real need where I live.
    The Old Sarge

  8. #58
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    This thread has gone from pepper spray to chatter to machine guns. There is little left to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
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    Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!

  9. #59
    20+mph Commuter JoeyBike's Avatar
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    I think the OPs question was answered a while ago.

  10. #60
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    I call for a third and motion for a close.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
    They can't fix expansion joints, because they expand.
    Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!

  11. #61
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    I always carry pepper spray on my person. Also have it in easy reach on both my bikes. I have used it.

    One can get foam pepper spray that shoots as a stream that sticks to whatever it hits. You can spray upwind with impunity. Google is your friend.

    A couple of years ago I had a run-in with a Canadian border officer (we were doing the Alcan Highway). I did not know that Canadians were not allowed to defend themselves with Pepper spray (or anything else it seems). After this particular Guy (French accent -- Quebecian I suspect) took my canisters and informed me that the foam-type I had in my pocket could result in criminal charges, I asked him if he would be willing to accompany my wife and I to the Alaskan border where I might be able to re-arm myself. He then informed me that Canadians did not need to arm themselves. Whereupon I asked him about Quebec separatists and mad mama bears. The non-French speaking guard behind him, who was clearly enjoying the exchange almost broke into outright laughter. I completely and utterly enjoy confronting arrogance and hypocrisy.

    Pepper spray is better than a *** if, that is, you know how to use it and are vigilant.

    I love animals; have cats, had dogs. I get along with them better than I do most people. As a dear and departed friend once said: "You never have to wonder about a dog; they either wag their tail or bite you on the leg. There's never any doubt."

    Dogs have teeth; we have our hands and minds. A strong man can defeat a dog if he can accept that he's gonna bleed some. I am not as strong as I once was (72 yrs & counting) but I still have the determination to take care of myself and others around me. A couple of weeks ago (literally) I had to kill a 130# Rottweiler that attacked me in my garage (long stupid story). He came at me and I did the following: I leaned toward him and raised my left forearm as he jumped toward my face. He sunk his teeth into the offered morsel and I lifted him up. At the same time I pulled my very sharp and very old Buck Woodsman (102) from its sheath and cut his throat. He was DRT (Dead Right There - cop talk). The stupid owner/kid came running and yelling. I told him that if he came into the garage, he'd get the same treatment. I then closed the door and called the Sheriff. Told them it should be code three as I wasn't sure what I might have to do to the kid and they'd better get over here to take charge. My wounds are healing; the dog didn't have time to shake his bite. The wounded arm, the dead dog in my garage, no leash, etc. meant that I was in no trouble, especially since the owner had been reported and warned three times about his Rottweiler's behavior, leash law and so on. I did not enjoy what I did but it'll just be another face in my nightmares of which I've plenty. Kinda wish it’d been the kid that came at me but I guess I shouldn't say that.

    Joe
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  12. #62
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    I just bring my friend Roscoe. No one messes with him.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    I just bring my friend Roscoe. No one messes with him.
    Pics or he doesn't exist.

  14. #64
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    My friend Roscoe both exists and complies with all forum regulations.

  15. #65
    905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Minton View Post
    A couple of years ago I had a run-in with a Canadian border officer (we were doing the Alcan Highway). I did not know that Canadians were not allowed to defend themselves with Pepper spray (or anything else it seems). After this particular Guy (French accent -- Quebecian I suspect) took my canisters and informed me that the foam-type I had in my pocket could result in criminal charges, I asked him if he would be willing to accompany my wife and I to the Alaskan border where I might be able to re-arm myself. He then informed me that Canadians did not need to arm themselves. Whereupon I asked him about Quebec separatists and mad mama bears.

    "Sir, Diefenbaker would be pleased to accompany you and your wife to the Alaskan border. He is part wolf and would have no problem taking down mad mama bears if it should become necessary which it would if you attempted to pepper spray her; she would likely regard that as an appetizer."

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Minton View Post
    A couple of weeks ago (literally) I had to kill a 130# Rottweiler that attacked me in my garage (long stupid story). He came at me and I did the following: I leaned toward him and raised my left forearm as he jumped toward my face. He sunk his teeth into the offered morsel and I lifted him up. At the same time I pulled my very sharp and very old Buck Woodsman (102) from its sheath and cut his throat. He was DRT (Dead Right There - cop talk). The stupid owner/kid came running and yelling. I told him that if he came into the garage, he'd get the same treatment. [my bold]
    Today's lesson: don't mess with Joe. I think Roscoe would back me up on this.
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  16. #66
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Minton View Post
    Dogs have teeth; we have our hands and minds. A strong man can defeat a dog if he can accept that he's gonna bleed some. I am not as strong as I once was (72 yrs & counting) but I still have the determination to take care of myself and others around me. A couple of weeks ago (literally) I had to kill a 130# Rottweiler that attacked me in my garage (long stupid story). He came at me and I did the following: I leaned toward him and raised my left forearm as he jumped toward my face. He sunk his teeth into the offered morsel and I lifted him up. At the same time I pulled my very sharp and very old Buck Woodsman (102) from its sheath and cut his throat. He was DRT (Dead Right There - cop talk). The stupid owner/kid came running and yelling. I told him that if he came into the garage, he'd get the same treatment. I then closed the door and called the Sheriff. Told them it should be code three as I wasn't sure what I might have to do to the kid and they'd better get over here to take charge. My wounds are healing; the dog didn't have time to shake his bite. The wounded arm, the dead dog in my garage, no leash, etc. meant that I was in no trouble, especially since the owner had been reported and warned three times about his Rottweiler's behavior, leash law and so on. I did not enjoy what I did but it'll just be another face in my nightmares of which I've plenty. Kinda wish it’d been the kid that came at me but I guess I shouldn't say that.

    Joe
    Joe's tagline is "living a fact based life".

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
    I read somewhere that even if a cop hits a perp with his flashlight and was not officially "certified" to use a flashlight as a weapon that the cop could get in trouble if some judge wanted to press the law.
    I'm sure it differs from state to state, but in NY it is OK to use weapons of opportunity. Basically, the standard is did you act in good faith, was the action reasonable, and did you have probable cause?

  17. #67
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    Thanks, 905 ;o)

    Is that a pix of Sgt. Preston and King?

    I love Canada and Canadians, but, they've been sold a 'bill of goods' when it comes to personal protection. There are times, in any culture or society, when one must take direct action. I truly regret that this is so, but, my regret does not remove the fact that, on occasion, direct and sometimes violent action is required. I prefer avoidance (don't go there, etc.) and kindness. If the other side does not agree, then, I must be prepared to prevail with superior and overwhelming force (don't bring a knife to a gunfight) ;o). Been there, done that.

    BTW: In Kalifornia police can use a flashlight but it must have a diameter somewhat more then 1.25" (don't know the actual spec).

    Joe
    Last edited by Joe Minton; 06-27-14 at 03:24 PM.
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  18. #68
    905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Minton View Post
    Is that a pix of Sgt. Preston and King?
    I had to look that up.

    The world of Due South was a different world to that of Sgt. Preston and King; one where a dog was more likely to be asked for advice about opera, than hitched to a sled.
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  19. #69
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    You realize that Nell and Dudley's horse usually save the day in Dudley Do-right cartoons.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
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  20. #70
    905
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    This still from Dudley Do-Right shows how cartoons informed young minds: Evil is easy to spot. Good prevails. Credit is taken where it isn't deserved, but all's well that ends well. And learning how to tie a knot in the scouts is a skill which really can come in handy later in life.

    Indeed, cartoons can still teach us even when we think we've outgrown them of most relevance here, how to correctly handle a weapon by opposite example. Pepper spray blowback has been mentioned upthread, but I wonder how many people actually aim the stuff at themselves in the heat of the moment.
    my personal FAQ bikereader.com/FAQ.html

  21. #71
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    ^^^Huh?

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    One thing I was curious about is.

    If you aren't wearing a jersey, where would you actually keep the pepper spray? If you're using a wedge pack, wouldnt the dog bite you before you could get to the spray making it a moot point?

  23. #73
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    Both my active bikes have Topeak "Fuel Tank" bags attached to the junction of the top and steering tubes. They have zippered top closures and I arrange a Pepper spray can at the front of the closure so that I can simply reach down and pull the can out.

    There are dedicated pepper spray bicycle mounts. GoTo Amazon & search "Pepper spray for bicycles."

    Joe
    Living a fact-based life.

  24. #74
    Just another brick....... PinkFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDude View Post
    I bought Fox defensive spray because it is formulated to be effective enough for use in law enforcement. Check out their web site for specifics. I think I purchased mine on line directly from Fox, but it might be available at a better price elsewhere.



    My opinion is that an attacker needs to be disabled, period. Thus, the best defensive spray is the strongest one that can be deployed effectively. If Fox is good enough for the cops, its good enough for me.
    +1 on the excellent Fox Labs 5.3. I've been carrying it for a few years now mounted in a holster designed to hold it under the top tube on my Orbea.

    In 2012, I was on a solo ride on a rural road. When passing by a little wood frame house, going slightly uphill, I saw and heard two pit bull terriers heading from the house toward me at a fast run. Trying to outrun them would have been questionable and would certainly have further triggered their pursuit instinct. I stopped, planted both feet, and began talking to them in a loud commanding voice (which has worked for me well before and since). The smaller of the two stopped in the yard. The big one kept on coming. By the time he got to the edge of pavement, I had spray ready and gave him about a one second burst. The dog stopped in his tracks, did a 180 and headed to the grass to rub his face. Others in our local cycling club have since used the same spray on aggressive dogs with good results.

    Quote Originally Posted by dippitydoo View Post
    One thing I was curious about is.

    If you aren't wearing a jersey, where would you actually keep the pepper spray? If you're using a wedge pack, wouldnt the dog bite you before you could get to the spray making it a moot point?
    Here ya go - http://www.defensedevices.com/bike-m...per-spray.html
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  25. #75
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    The results of most studies seem to indicate to me that Pepper Spray is not really a good defensive tool. It does not incapacitate, or paralyze. It has no stopping power whatsoever. Attackers can, and in many cases have, continued their assault. They can still grab, hit, kick, wield a blade, and shoot. Granted, most normal people after being sprayed, will fall to their knees and rub their eyes, but we're not talking about normal people here. We're are talking about an enraged person who is very likely under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or mentally ill, or enraged to the point of compromised judgement, who is now most likely even more enraged after being sprayed......

    I'm an inactive aging Marine, and even though I am getting older, I still feel confident in my ability to handle myself when the chips are down, at least good enough to extract myself from the situation and escape. Law Enforcement and the Justice System can deal with them after that. I'm not getting any points for winning a fight, and in my opinion, 'winning' is getting home alive and relatively intact. I don't have to defeat anyone. All I have to do is escape. I carry a knife with me at all times (all of mine are Cold Steel), but I would only use that as an absolute last resort. It would be difficult for someone to assault me without getting on their feet (ie; out of a vehicle, etc...), but I have my bike. That gives me a definite speed advantage. All I have to do is get clear long enough to mount and take off. Even if they chase me in a vehicle, I can go places they can't. All the while, I would be on my cell with 911 screaming for help. I would even lead them to the response unit. If an attacker has a firearm, about all I can do is make sure they are trying to hit a moving target, and Providence help them if I get close enough to grab them, or the weapon. I will do what is necessary to protect myself and others. I would also be throwing rocks, debris, and anything I could get my hands on. The outcome for them would still be far from certain.

    The most dangerous weapon you can posses is your brain.

    Actually, in over 40 years of riding, I've never had any physical confrontations with anyone while riding...nothing more than name-calling and obscene gestures. I did have a dog run up and bite my ankle...once. I'm sure his owners miss him...he was delicious....

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