aubiecat

SB4, originally a 3 foot law, was amended to a 5 foot law and passed out of the senate. (Y: 16 N: 11 NV: 1 Abs: 7) It's ridiculous that the vote was that close.

It is now waiting in committee in the house. Hopefully it will make it out of committee this year.

howsteepisit

Its ridiculous that you cannot see any point of view except your own. Or can you explain what and why its ridiculous rather than a different point of view?

aubiecat

Thanks for taking up for the politicians of Alabama, they need all the help they can get.

spare_wheel

5 feet! That's more like it.

howsteepisit

I am still waiting for an explanation why voting against an unlikely to be enforced law is "ridiculous"

gpsblake

And a single ticket won't be written for it unless an collision happens. Without the funding make it into a major public awareness campaign, these laws are worthless.

adablduya

why don't you offer up some meat as to what voting against a bill has anything to do with your perception of unlikelihood of enforce-ability ?

CliffordK

Abs... is that Abstain or Absent?

For me, the breadth of a whisker is just fine... as long as they don't get any closer than that (even if I have to avoid some obstruction). Oh, and as long as they don't forget they have a trailer that is a foot wider than their tow vehicle.

aubiecat

You're waiting? Really? LoL.

CliffordK

I think 5 feet is a bit excessive. Perhaps 2 to 3 feet in many cases, although perhaps a better way to consider it is the speed differential. For a greater than 20 MPH speed differential between vehicle and bike, then 5 foot would be nice. For a 10 MPH speed differential, 2 or 3 feed is fine.

What this will mean, however, is that there is almost no way that a car can pass a bike without a shoulder/bike lane and fully remain in the same lane as the bike.

Even if not fully enforced, the clearance issue can be included in driver's manuals and taught in all driving safety courses. Hopefully fostering awareness among the young drivers. A corresponding news and media publicity campaign would be beneficial.

CrankyOne

I think that laws like this, fighting keep right laws, 3 abreast, and similar will only create more antagonism towards cyclists.

howsteepisit

Since you don't support the 5-foot law your opinion must be, by the OP's reasoning, ridiculous.

CliffordK

With a 5 foot safety margin, one effectively can't pass and stay in the same lane (and can't pass at all without pull-outs on 1-lane mountain roads). So, there would be no reason not to "take the lane" or ride 2 or 3 abreast.

Hopefully the legislature is also appealing any keep-right laws at the same time as they become irrelevant.

Chris516

While 5ft may seem like a great improvement. Alabama is in the deep South. So, The probability that it will pass. Then motorists' complying with it. Is practically negligible. I don't see it succeeding.

CrankyOne

Yep.

Juan Foote

If the letter of this law was followed and enforced, I see an increase in head on collisions and going off road accidents involving other properties/etc.

B. Carfree

That sure looks like our home. In Oregon, we have ORS 811.062 that requires a motorist to give cyclists room to fall over in their direction when passing if the speed limit is over 35 mph (and there's no bike lane). That pretty well matches your 20 mph or greater speed differential for a greater passing distance (although room to fall is even larger than five feet).

Sadly, as others have noted, such laws are generally unenforced and unknown to almost all motorists. In fact, I have had to educate a few state troopers and county sheriff deputies who were ignorant of the law. However, it does give us something to use to shut down the hate in local publications when the motorheads complain.

I hope Alabama is able to pass this five foot law. It will be appreciated by both cyclists in that state (just kidding).

spare_wheel

Because some fell mystic force possesses drivers and prevents them from pressing their brake pedals?

Juan Foote

I would have to answer yes. In the best of conditions and a three foot passing rule it's very rare for a driver to yield right of way to a bike and oncoming traffic like they should, particularly on blind corners and hills.

Digitalfiend

Don't you know that drivers can't control how and when they pass a cyclist? It's always the cyclist's fault when a driver is forced into an unsafe pass. It's common knowledge that a driver must pass a cyclist around a blind corner or up a hill, usually at the last possible moment, and at ludicrous-speeds because leaving a margin for error is just unnecessary.

FBinNY 

I agree that a 5' law is excessive, and in the long run won't be good for anyone. If they don't enforce the law, it's meaningless, and if they do, legal pssing may become impossible on many narrow roads. That will lead to a backlash, or the simpler expedient of moving bicycles off amny roads where they're now legal.

IMO (yes it's opinion only) minimum distance laws miss the point. I'm comfortable with closer passes if the speed differential is fairly low. OTOH, riding at 15, and being passed at 55 within 4' (beyond 3") can be unnerving. There's also wind conditions, and being passed by a large truck upwind of a stiff crosswind is always a nasty surprise.

Old, existing law is simple and straightforward, and well understood. I gives the right of way to the "being passed" vehicle (any including bicycles) and makes the passing vehicle responsible for a safe pass. We don't need nw laws, we just need some enforcement of existing ones, along with some education.

B. Carfree

I disagree with much of what you wrote. While it is true that effective enforcement of existing laws would suffice, almost all law enforcement personnel that I have interacted with think that any pass that simply misses a cyclist is good enough. While somewhat true (no harm came to the cyclist who was buzzed), it does create a barrier to new cyclists and also means that small miscalculations on the part of motorists become hits instead of narrow misses. A fixed distance requirement clears up any misconception regarding how much space a motorist must give. (Yes, most of them will fudge, but better to fudge from five feet (or three feet, or whatever) than to fudge from an inch.

Also, if a road is both narrow and has enough traffic that a five foot law precludes passing, such passing is also precluded in the absence of the law since a competent cyclist will be taking the lane. I don't know the situation in Alabama, but a narrow two lane road that has enough traffic for passing to be impossible, or merely difficult, isn't really the norm. By the time there is that much traffic, it's not unusual for such a road to be improved (shoulders (more traffic means more breakdowns) or added lanes plus shoulders).

Buffalo Buff

These laws don't do ****. NC has a 2 foot rule law. Last ride a car swiped me with their side mirror. I stayed calm and polite, went up to the guy's window and waved. Called him sir, never tapped on his window, explained myself politely etc. His words "Who the **** do you think you are, riding a bike on the street like a putz, then you have the nerve to come up TO ME?" Yeah, I do. You broke the law. I didn't. I'm just trying to not die. That's all.

The kicker is I saw him try to hide an open can of beer between his legs when I approached his car, so I called the cops to report a DUI. **** him and everyone with his mentality. "Well you were on THE ROAD so I'm totally justified in hitting you" What the **** is it with people and cyclists. If you get on a bike its like a license for everyone to not give two ****s about you.

FBinNY 

I appreciate what you said, and there's plenty of room here for legitimate disagreement. But accepting a need for minimum pass laws as a basis of discussion, the problem with a 5' law, is it creates situations on narrow roads, where even a full lane change doesn't meet the standard if the cyclist is in the left of lane center position that many advocate.

I don't know about othes, but as a cyclist (gave up my car 5 years ago), I'm not comfortable giving cyclists the right to make legal passing impossible. So, 3' is OK, even though I don' think it's meaningful, but 5' is simply too much.

Fortunately, I don't live or ride in Alabama, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but I hope the folks down there come to their senses, and if they decide to pass a law, make it 3' not 5'.

GlennR

Be glad he didn't shoot you and claim he felt threatened.

Can You Stand Your Ground in North Carolina?

"As of December 1, 2011, citizens of North Carolina had the legal right to defend themselves with deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplace without the “duty to retreat.”"