Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-02-14, 09:47 AM   #1
1nterceptor
LET'S ROLL
Thread Starter
 
1nterceptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NEW YORK, NY - USA
Bikes: 2014 BMC Gran Fondo, 2013 Brompton S6L-X
Posts: 3,816
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
One armed cyclist fined for having just 1 brake lever

"Under German road safety rules, bicycles are required to have to have two handlebar brakes. After a long argument at the roadside, the officer insisted that Mr Ionescu’s bike was not roadworthy and issued him with a €25 (£20) fine."

Read the full article:
German police apologise for fining one-armed cyclist for riding his bike with only one arm - Europe - World - The Independent
1nterceptor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 10:03 AM   #2
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,003
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1nterceptor View Post
"Under German road safety rules, bicycles are required to have to have two handlebar brakes. After a long argument at the roadside, the officer insisted that Mr Ionescu’s bike was not roadworthy and issued him with a €25 (£20) fine."
Besides the absurdity of making the rule apply to a one-armed cyclist, I'm surprised that the rule would specify that both brakes be hand-operated. When I was a student in Germany my bike had a coaster brake on the back wheel and only a front handbrake and that appeared to be a common arrangement for utility bikes at the time.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 10:12 AM   #3
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Bikes: A lot of old bikes and a few new ones
Posts: 9,936
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
You couldn't buy that much bad publicity if you tried.
bikemig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 10:19 AM   #4
blacksapphire08
Senior Member
 
blacksapphire08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Bikes: Trek FX 7.3, Electra Cruiser Custom 3i
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have a Jamis Hudson that operates front and rear brakes with one brake lever and I assume thats a similar setup to what this gentleman has in his bike. If it's illegal why do they sell bikes like that?
blacksapphire08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 10:24 AM   #5
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Besides the absurdity of making the rule apply to a one-armed cyclist, I'm surprised that the rule would specify that both brakes be hand-operated. When I was a student in Germany my bike had a coaster brake on the back wheel and only a front handbrake and that appeared to be a common arrangement for utility bikes at the time.
I doubt very much that the law calls for two handbrake operated brakes for the reason that you stated, i.e. it is common for German bikes, including the numerous IGH rear wheels, to be equipped with a foot operated rear coaster brake as well as a hand operated front brake. The "rule" for two working handbrakes is probably an invention of the British Tabloid cited in the OP.

Attached are some of the legal German bikes I bought in Germany with only one hand brake, all have coaster brake rear.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vaterland-Big -Rear View.jpg (102.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg Ragazzi-Big RearLeft Side.jpg (102.7 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg ZeroSeven-small.jpg (85.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg CalvinBike.JPG (70.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Mtn-Bike.JPG (76.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Kynast_Big Left Side wTrailer.jpg (104.7 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-02-14 at 10:30 AM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 10:26 AM   #6
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,529
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I think if he had a dual brake lever the officer would have considered it legal, he had a foot brake and a handlebar brake
__________________
Randonneuring -- it's touring for people that aren't smart enough to stop for the night.
It's a wonderful sport when you can make up for a lack of ability with a lack of sleep
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 10:43 AM   #7
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I doubt very much that the law calls for two handbrake operated brakes for the reason that you stated, i.e. it is common for German bikes, including the numerous IGH rear wheels, to be equipped with a foot operated rear coaster brake as well as a hand operated front brake. The "rule" for two working handbrakes is probably an invention of the British Tabloid cited in the OP.
The original story from Kölner Stadt-Unzeiger, complete with a link to the earlier Kölner Stadt-Unzeiger story.

No, this is not a UK tabloid invention.

But yes, German regulations are for two independent brake systems, not two hand brakes.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 07-02-14 at 10:51 AM.
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 11:08 AM   #8
905
waiting for my name tag
 
905's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Finally, yesterday police told Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger that they had offered a full refund an apology to [theatre box office worker] Mr Ionescu, with a spokesperson saying: “We only hope something like this never happens again.”
Hear that? It's the sound of one hand clapping.
905 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 11:16 AM   #9
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
The original story from Kölner Stadt-Unzeiger, complete with a link to the earlier Kölner Stadt-Unzeiger story.

No, this is not a UK tabloid invention.

But yes, German regulations are for two independent brake systems, not two hand brakes.

-mr. bill
OK, got it. The fabrication of the two hand brake "requirement" originated somewhere else; the British tabloid and OP repeated it.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 01:15 PM   #10
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,632
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksapphire08 View Post
We have a Jamis Hudson that operates front and rear brakes with one brake lever and I assume thats a similar setup to what this gentleman has in his bike. If it's illegal why do they sell bikes like that?
Every damn bike ever ridden in America at night is sold "illegally..."

Just about every state has a law that specifies that a bike ridden at night must have a light (used to just be reflectors...). The law ususally reads something like this:
Quote:
A lamp emitting a white light that, while the bicycle is in motion, illuminates the highway, sidewalk, or bikeway in front of the bicyclist and is visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and from the sides of the bicycle.
Few bikes sold in America are sold with lights.

Quote:
If it's illegal why do they sell bikes like that?
Yeah, why?
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 01:53 PM   #11
ItsJustMe
Señior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Posts: 12,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
I think there's a significant difference between selling a bicycle without lights when it's only illegal to ride them AT NIGHT without lights, and few people ride bikes at night, versus selling a bike that can't legally be ridden at all (assuming the interpretation of the German law is correct).
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 02:20 PM   #12
HawkOwl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 2,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wonder what a psychologist would make of this thread? A street level person made a mistake. Management not only corrected the mistake but apologized. Yet, this......
HawkOwl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 02:44 PM   #13
Looigi
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 8,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Every damn bike ever ridden in America at night is sold "illegally..."

Just about every state has a law that specifies that a bike ridden at night must have a light (used to just be reflectors...). The law ususally reads something like this:

Few bikes sold in America are sold with lights.

Yeah, why?
No. Bikes sold completely assembled must have CPSC compliant set of reflectors. If they're to be ridden at night and the state requires lights, it's the responsibility of the rider, not the seller, to ensure the bike complies with the law.
Looigi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 02:59 PM   #14
brianmcg123
Senior Member
 
brianmcg123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: TN
Bikes:
Posts: 579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
I remember hearing about a power-lifter who broke a world record in the bench press, but it was disallowed because he was not wearing shoes. The man had his lower legs amputated when he was very young.

The next event he was in he was wearing shoes. The shoelaces were tied around his neck. He broke the record that time.
brianmcg123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 04:01 PM   #15
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Every damn bike ever ridden in America at night is sold "illegally..."

Just about every state has a law that specifies that a bike ridden at night must have a light (used to just be reflectors...). The law ususally reads something like this:

Few bikes sold in America are sold with lights.

Yeah, why?
Because it is NOT illegal to sell a bike in the U.S. without lights. It may be illegal to ride at night without lights. It shouldn't be that hard to understand the difference.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 04:04 PM   #16
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
Wonder what a psychologist would make of this thread? A street level person made a mistake. Management not only corrected the mistake but apologized. Yet, this......
Henny-Penny, Woe Is Me, Victim Complex?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 04:25 PM   #17
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Cruiser
Posts: 5,628
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Giving that cyclist a ticket is so lame. What about some fixie riders that have no brakes, or as someone mentioned a bike with just a rear wheel coaster brake? Just last week I ran into a fixie rider that had no brakes at all.
rydabent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 04:32 PM   #18
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Giving that cyclist a ticket is so lame. What about some fixie riders that have no brakes, or as someone mentioned a bike with just a rear wheel coaster brake? Just last week I ran into a fixie rider that had no brakes at all.
What is doubly lame is carrying on about an incident that was a mistake to begin with, that has been corrected and settled and is over. But that doesn't seem to make any difference to those who enjoy wailing and gnashing their teeth over the alleged persecution of bicyclist victims.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 06:04 PM   #19
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Bikes: Surly LHT
Posts: 5,345
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Zee rules are zee rules.
JoeyBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-14, 06:46 PM   #20
Chicago Al 
Senior Member
 
Chicago Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, the leafy NW side
Bikes:
Posts: 2,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What is doubly lame is carrying on about an incident that was a mistake to begin with, that has been corrected and settled and is over. But that doesn't seem to make any difference to those who enjoy wailing and gnashing their teeth over the alleged persecution of bicyclist victims.
+1

What is 1nterceptor's deal, anyway? He posts this kind of thing frequently, like he spends all his time looking for stories about bad things for cyclists, then posts them here. Never with much in the way of context or understanding, and he doesn't follow up with his own comments. Who knows, maybe he hates cyclists himself and is simply trolling the whole forum. This 'discussion' is particularly pointless and has nothing to do with advocacy or safety.
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.

- Dr Samuel Johnson
Chicago Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-14, 12:21 AM   #21
905
waiting for my name tag
 
905's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
Wonder what a psychologist would make of this thread? A street level person made a mistake. Management not only corrected the mistake but apologized. Yet, this......
I suppose a psychologist might diagnose a deficit in rule-governed behavior.

It's fair to say some of us have less sympathy for errors in judgement made by "street level" people who have the power not just to cite, but to arrest and detain – though fortunately it didn't come to that despite what the news report calls "a long argument at the roadside". At least Mr Ioescu felt confident enough to be able to state his case without being tased or something, which is what you want in a healthy democracy.

Last edited by 905; 07-03-14 at 01:51 AM.
905 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-14, 01:05 AM   #22
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Bikes:
Posts: 3,307
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Every damn bike ever ridden in America at night is sold "illegally..."

Just about every state has a law that specifies that a bike ridden at night must have a light (used to just be reflectors...). The law ususally reads something like this:

Few bikes sold in America are sold with lights.

Yeah, why?
So somebody can sell them.
__________________
My disaffection is severely affected.
Rollfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-14, 01:08 AM   #23
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Bikes:
Posts: 3,307
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Al View Post
+1

What is 1nterceptor's deal, anyway? He posts this kind of thing frequently, like he spends all his time looking for stories about bad things for cyclists, then posts them here. Never with much in the way of context or understanding, and he doesn't follow up with his own comments. Who knows, maybe he hates cyclists himself and is simply trolling the whole forum. This 'discussion' is particularly pointless and has nothing to do with advocacy or safety.
No nasty bull gorings during time trials of late. Maybe the bill for better cattle gates worked.
__________________
My disaffection is severely affected.
Rollfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-14, 07:33 AM   #24
Chicago Al 
Senior Member
 
Chicago Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, the leafy NW side
Bikes:
Posts: 2,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 905 View Post
I suppose a psychologist might diagnose a deficit in rule-governed behavior.

It's fair to say some of us have less sympathy for errors in judgement made by "street level" people who have the power not just to cite, but to arrest and detain – though fortunately it didn't come to that despite what the news report calls "a long argument at the roadside". At least Mr Ioescu felt confident enough to be able to state his case without being tased or something, which is what you want in a healthy democracy.
+1

It's not mentioned in the stories linked above, but the one-armed man, Bogdan Ionesco, is likely an immigrant to Germany from Romania (the -co or -cu ending is typically Romanian), may speak German with an accent. Post-1991 many Romanians have scattered to more prosperous European countries and the UK. Some Germans are very hostile to these immigrants, and that might explain the cop's evident animus toward Ionesco and determination to find something to charge him with. This kind of profiling and harassment has been known to happen in other places, too--as any black American will attest.
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.

- Dr Samuel Johnson

Last edited by Chicago Al; 07-03-14 at 07:44 AM.
Chicago Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-14, 07:37 AM   #25
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,284
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You couldn't buy that much bad publicity if you tried.
+1
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:31 PM.