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Old 07-10-14, 09:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Ski across frozen hell to destroy Nazi heavy water-now they have bike escalators?
Awfully costly solution when you can just walk up-pushing your bike?
And they maintain it in their bitter weather?
Doesn't "rust out" or get broken by ice melting freezing melting freezing?
I couldn't tell if they had to pay a bit-coin operated-or not?
Now I didn't see a hell of a lot of people using it
and it didn't look "much faster" than walking up

Awfully complicated approach to a simple situation-get off and walk your bike up.
We are getting distracted too easily and coasting into oblivion here... get on track or end the thread.
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Old 07-10-14, 09:34 PM   #52
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Old 07-11-14, 12:37 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
One day, all, non essential vehicle traffic will be gone from the streets of cities like D.C., NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and other metro areas with five figure population densities. As I understand it, the entire European Union plans to be (urban) car free by 2050. In America it will not take longer than that, but the fight will be bloodier. America's baby boomers are just as stubborn in their car addiction as they believe the cyclist community to be in their car free advocacy. At least the cyclist community does not have the destruction of the biome as a consequence of its existence.

H
I suspect when inexpensive autonomous EVs become a reality that pipe dream will fade away, and as much as I support urban cycling infrastructure I seriously doubt cycling will ever be a major form of transportation.
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Old 07-11-14, 02:09 AM   #54
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Nice one, 905. Here's another take:

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Old 07-11-14, 07:00 AM   #55
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If you look past the racial embitterment the guy makes valid points from a non-cyclist pov. What bothers me more than the slight inclination towards a "violent" response, was that every comment was laden with an unspoken "look what whitey did". His rant bleeds everything that is wrong with the social problems of the inner city and gentrification off as the fault of evil yippee cyclists.
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Old 07-11-14, 07:45 AM   #56
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If you look past the racial embitterment the guy makes valid points from a non-cyclist pov.
I'd be hard pressed to find a valid point in that ridiculous diatribe. This is illustrated quite humorously in my favorite reader comment after the article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_killiany
As a college comp professor, I'm always on the look out for examples of logical fallacies. In this, Courtland Milloy is the gift that keeps on giving. Seriously--the gang's all here: strawman, hasty generalizations, red herrings, weak analogies. I so often use his columns to illustrate ineffective rhetorical choices that I feel like I should offer him a stipend of some sort just to make sure he continues turning this stuff out. Has there ever been a columnist for the Post so less aware of the rhetorical situation?
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Old 07-11-14, 08:09 AM   #57
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I don't disagree with any manner of picking the article, or author, apart but in that we must be honest in validating certain points he makes. Ninja cyclists, salmon, sidewalk surfers, and the entitled bike road rager are all for real issues that pose a danger to folks on both sides of this fence. It's no wonder that the average urban driver has a pretty poor attitude regarding cyclists in general if you actually look at the things people on bikes do. It take a cyclist to actually know that we frown on that mess as well.

To add to that thought. It's my opinion that the average non-cycling motorist doesn't see most people on bicycles in an active conscious way unless they are doing something out of the ordinary. Then the perception in their minds are that all cyclists must act with such disregard because it's "all they have seen".

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Old 07-11-14, 08:29 AM   #58
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For starters it's still open season on middle-to-upper class white men. That's not to say "oh poor us" because in nearly all other respects the system is still very heavily biased in favor of middle-to-upper class white men. In any case, our society seems to tolerate attacks on middle-to-upper class white men, and (as seen in the WP editorial) the visible majority of cyclists are middle-to-upper class white men. Notice that he has nothing bad to say about the "black juveniles" who apparently used to be the majority of on-street cyclists in DC (even if his statements have the subtext of "because they didn't ask for anything").

Second, the vast majority of us are cyclists by choice. In our society, (with the previously noted exception) it is not "OK" to express contempt for a group of people based on a characteristic that is beyond their control, even if it's a characteristic they are very proud of. People who may be grouped based on their choices, on the other hand, are fair game for just about any extreme of hatred. Witness the vile polemics in the political arena.
I agree completely, thanks for expanding it as I was thinking along the exact same lines as both of your points.
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Old 07-11-14, 10:21 AM   #59
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The pedestrians in the video were keeping pace, weren't they. To me, this seems more like a novelty than a real advantage to cyclists. Did the designers forget that legs can be used to walk? Also, it looked rather awkward for the users. I wonder how many injuries they have seen.
Matariki-it looked maybe 50% faster than walking-meaning not much.
And yeah-hanging one leg to the side- looked awkward
AND- suppose you have to dodge a car
Perhaps a "Killer motorist" the sort that some posters here cross paths with very frequently(once every 20 years for me)
Or just a distracted person-texting,reaching for radio
You really wouldn't want that foot hanging over there if you wanted to swerve suddenly

And that hill-maybe 50-60 ft elevation gain-not much for all that expense?

I'm guessing BIKE ESCALATORS didn't catch on anywhere
bikes are a simple cheap compact solution to short trip travel
Bike escalator-???

Now a Big hill-mountain- 500-1000 ft elevation gain-if LOTS of riders made the trip-say to work at some mine maybe-might make sense?
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Old 07-11-14, 10:32 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
We are getting distracted too easily and coasting into oblivion here... get on track or end the thread.
OK
The columnist didn't actually "call for assaulting cyclists"
so original heading was a lie
What the columnist actual wrote was typical "I don't like bikes bike riders-if they keep pissing "us off" someone might run them over"
"Lots" of drivers and pedestrians don't like bike riders.
Nothing new there
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Old 07-11-14, 11:16 AM   #61
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Oh, I like.

Quote:
As a college comp professor, I'm always on the look out for examples of logical fallacies. In this, Courtland Milloy is the gift that keeps on giving. Seriously--the gang's all here: strawman, hasty generalizations, red herrings, weak analogies. I so often use his columns to illustrate ineffective rhetorical choices that I feel like I should offer him a stipend of some sort just to make sure he continues turning this stuff out. Has there ever been a columnist for the Post so less aware of the rhetorical situation?
I'm not a regular reader of the Post, or indeed any of the old gray ladies, but from past visits to the tired hack's copy shop I think Milloy is not the only one who's a bad boy yet stays on Santa's list.

For cyclists, silly season never ends.

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Old 07-11-14, 11:33 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
...
And that hill-maybe 50-60 ft elevation gain-not much for all that expense?

I'm guessing BIKE ESCALATORS didn't catch on anywhere
bikes are a simple cheap compact solution to short trip travel
Bike escalator-???...
Looking at Google Maps I figured about 80 feet total, maybe the steep section is 50-60? Maybe 6% grade, near as I could tell.

The escalator is 4-6 mph. My personal opinion: ridiculous. Why would an active person be averse to walking a short distance uphill?
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Old 07-11-14, 12:06 PM   #63
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Looking at Google Maps I figured about 80 feet total, maybe the steep section is 50-60? Maybe 6% grade, near as I could tell.

The escalator is 4-6 mph. My personal opinion: ridiculous. Why would an active person be averse to walking a short distance uphill?
I'll admit if there were one of those on the mile long, 8% to 10% grade hill I climb on my way home after 10 + hours at work I would use it with no shame. I can ride it on my 8 and 21 speeds but need to walk it with my 3 speeds. From what I've seen most just take the bus up the hill but I'm a cheapskate.
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Old 07-11-14, 12:19 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
One day, all, non essential vehicle traffic will be gone from the streets of cities like D.C., NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and other metro areas with five figure population densities. As I understand it, the entire European Union plans to be (urban) car free by 2050. In America it will not take longer than that, but the fight will be bloodier. America's baby boomers are just as stubborn in their car addiction as they believe the cyclist community to be in their car free advocacy. At least the cyclist community does not have the destruction of the biome as a consequence of its existence.

H
Come 2050, I doubt there will be few if any baby boomers driving cars anyway.
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Old 07-11-14, 12:51 PM   #65
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Not sure if any of you saw this, probably got swallowed up in this whole controversy, but instead of displaying his general jack***ery, Courtland Milloy probably should have written something more along the lines of this: Hey, infuriated D.C. bikers and drivers, can?t we all just get along? - The Washington Post
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Old 07-11-14, 01:32 PM   #66
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[MENTION=370308]huizar[/MENTION]: Several of the Post's columnists have gotten into the act since Milloy's column was posted. I know a lot of people are accusing them of posting "click-bait" and I'm starting to believe it. It's as if they're saying, "Wow, look at all the traffic Milloy's column got. I want a piece of this action."
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Old 07-11-14, 01:38 PM   #67
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...we must be honest in validating certain points he makes. Ninja cyclists, salmon, sidewalk surfers, and the entitled bike road rager are all for real issues that pose a danger to folks on both sides of this fence.
Except I have a major problem with singling out just one group because it doesn't address the overall issue and results in absolutely nothing except flame wars. What we are really talking about here isn't bikes, it's traffic safety, and anyone who is genuinely concerned about the subject would take all offenders to task, not just one subset. The mode of transport is incidental (although a strong case should can be made that an emphasis should be placed on the group that causes the most injuries and fatalities, namely motor vehicles).
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Old 07-11-14, 04:01 PM   #68
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I'll admit if there were one of those on the mile long, 8% to 10% grade hill I climb on my way home after 10 + hours at work I would use it with no shame. I can ride it on my 8 and 21 speeds but need to walk it with my 3 speeds. From what I've seen most just take the bus up the hill but I'm a cheapskate.
Wow 1 mile 500 ft gain-at the end of a work day-hmmmm
I would probably break down and get an electric "boost" for my bike(if I didn't just drive-which is what I do)
Just gaining 500 ft- assuming about 200 lbs- 1/3 hp 500 seconds-8 1/2 minutes
and no way could I put out 1/3 hp for more than a few seconds
so figure 15 minutes per 500 ft-and dead tired
My "workout fun ride" up and down river levee-maybe 15 20 ft mini climbs- 24 minutes-just 300 feet of gain
but I am old-63 fat 180 5'5" and it is hot in NOLA
yeah kickstart-get an electric boost-(assuming you can lock it well at work)


wphamilton- so just 80 foot gain?? Wow awfully complicated "fix" for a not a problem problem.
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Old 07-12-14, 12:30 PM   #69
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Except I have a major problem with singling out just one group because it doesn't address the overall issue and results in absolutely nothing except flame wars. What we are really talking about here isn't bikes, it's traffic safety, and anyone who is genuinely concerned about the subject would take all offenders to task, not just one subset. The mode of transport is incidental (although a strong case should can be made that an emphasis should be placed on the group that causes the most injuries and fatalities, namely motor vehicles).
I am not sure I understand what you mean by singling out one group.The subject of the article was cyclists and motorists from the pov of an anti cycling motorist. The reasons behind his anti cycling stance were varied and certainly questionable as to direct cause/effect (as others as well as myself have mentioned the racially charged aspect of the article), but just the same how could you expect an article about a specific subject from a specific pov NOT single out the subject matter? In this case, bad cyclists and why we should react a certain way to "curb"(?) it...by acting badly I might add.
Where there is no doubt that in a car/cyclist situation the car will always win, but it isn't to say that the car driver is always at fault or that any and all cyclist act they way they should.
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Old 07-12-14, 02:52 PM   #70
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Wow 1 mile 500 ft gain-at the end of a work day-hmmmm
I would probably break down and get an electric "boost" for my bike(if I didn't just drive-which is what I do)
Just gaining 500 ft- assuming about 200 lbs- 1/3 hp 500 seconds-8 1/2 minutes
and no way could I put out 1/3 hp for more than a few seconds
so figure 15 minutes per 500 ft-and dead tired
My "workout fun ride" up and down river levee-maybe 15 20 ft mini climbs- 24 minutes-just 300 feet of gain
but I am old-63 fat 180 5'5" and it is hot in NOLA
yeah kickstart-get an electric boost-(assuming you can lock it well at work)
Don't even need to lock my bike at work, a secure, guarded transportation terminal, but decent boost units are really expensive and the workout keeps me in shape. I'm 50 now, I may change my mind in a few more years.
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