Whackadoodle columnist calls for assaulting cyclists
07-10-14, 09:24 PM
#51
What happened?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927
Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!
Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times
in
255 Posts
Ski across frozen hell to destroy Nazi heavy water-now they have bike escalators?
Awfully costly solution when you can just walk up-pushing your bike?
And they maintain it in their bitter weather?
Doesn't "rust out" or get broken by ice melting freezing melting freezing?
I couldn't tell if they had to pay a bit-coin operated-or not?
Now I didn't see a hell of a lot of people using it
and it didn't look "much faster" than walking up
Awfully complicated approach to a simple situation-get off and walk your bike up.
Awfully costly solution when you can just walk up-pushing your bike?
And they maintain it in their bitter weather?
Doesn't "rust out" or get broken by ice melting freezing melting freezing?
I couldn't tell if they had to pay a bit-coin operated-or not?
Now I didn't see a hell of a lot of people using it
and it didn't look "much faster" than walking up
Awfully complicated approach to a simple situation-get off and walk your bike up.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
07-11-14, 12:37 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
One day, all, non essential vehicle traffic will be gone from the streets of cities like D.C., NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and other metro areas with five figure population densities. As I understand it, the entire European Union plans to be (urban) car free by 2050. In America it will not take longer than that, but the fight will be bloodier. America's baby boomers are just as stubborn in their car addiction as they believe the cyclist community to be in their car free advocacy. At least the cyclist community does not have the destruction of the biome as a consequence of its existence.
H
H
07-11-14, 07:00 AM
#55
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 4,299
Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2208 Post(s)
Liked 960 Times
in
686 Posts
If you look past the racial embitterment the guy makes valid points from a non-cyclist pov. What bothers me more than the slight inclination towards a "violent" response, was that every comment was laden with an unspoken "look what whitey did". His rant bleeds everything that is wrong with the social problems of the inner city and gentrification off as the fault of evil yippee cyclists.
07-11-14, 07:45 AM
#56
Senior Member
Originally Posted by joe_killiany
As a college comp professor, I'm always on the look out for examples of logical fallacies. In this, Courtland Milloy is the gift that keeps on giving. Seriously--the gang's all here: strawman, hasty generalizations, red herrings, weak analogies. I so often use his columns to illustrate ineffective rhetorical choices that I feel like I should offer him a stipend of some sort just to make sure he continues turning this stuff out. Has there ever been a columnist for the Post so less aware of the rhetorical situation?
07-11-14, 08:09 AM
#57
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 4,299
Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2208 Post(s)
Liked 960 Times
in
686 Posts
I don't disagree with any manner of picking the article, or author, apart but in that we must be honest in validating certain points he makes. Ninja cyclists, salmon, sidewalk surfers, and the entitled bike road rager are all for real issues that pose a danger to folks on both sides of this fence. It's no wonder that the average urban driver has a pretty poor attitude regarding cyclists in general if you actually look at the things people on bikes do. It take a cyclist to actually know that we frown on that mess as well.
To add to that thought. It's my opinion that the average non-cycling motorist doesn't see most people on bicycles in an active conscious way unless they are doing something out of the ordinary. Then the perception in their minds are that all cyclists must act with such disregard because it's "all they have seen".
To add to that thought. It's my opinion that the average non-cycling motorist doesn't see most people on bicycles in an active conscious way unless they are doing something out of the ordinary. Then the perception in their minds are that all cyclists must act with such disregard because it's "all they have seen".
Last edited by Juan Foote; 07-11-14 at 08:14 AM.
07-11-14, 08:29 AM
#58
ride for a change
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 2,221
Bikes: Surly Cross-check & Moonlander, Pivot Mach 429, Ted Wojcik Sof-Trac, Ridley Orion. Santa Cruz Stigmata
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
For starters it's still open season on middle-to-upper class white men. That's not to say "oh poor us" because in nearly all other respects the system is still very heavily biased in favor of middle-to-upper class white men. In any case, our society seems to tolerate attacks on middle-to-upper class white men, and (as seen in the WP editorial) the visible majority of cyclists are middle-to-upper class white men. Notice that he has nothing bad to say about the "black juveniles" who apparently used to be the majority of on-street cyclists in DC (even if his statements have the subtext of "because they didn't ask for anything").
Second, the vast majority of us are cyclists by choice. In our society, (with the previously noted exception) it is not "OK" to express contempt for a group of people based on a characteristic that is beyond their control, even if it's a characteristic they are very proud of. People who may be grouped based on their choices, on the other hand, are fair game for just about any extreme of hatred. Witness the vile polemics in the political arena.
Second, the vast majority of us are cyclists by choice. In our society, (with the previously noted exception) it is not "OK" to express contempt for a group of people based on a characteristic that is beyond their control, even if it's a characteristic they are very proud of. People who may be grouped based on their choices, on the other hand, are fair game for just about any extreme of hatred. Witness the vile polemics in the political arena.
07-11-14, 10:21 AM
#59
New Orleans
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,794
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
The pedestrians in the video were keeping pace, weren't they. To me, this seems more like a novelty than a real advantage to cyclists. Did the designers forget that legs can be used to walk? Also, it looked rather awkward for the users. I wonder how many injuries they have seen.
And yeah-hanging one leg to the side- looked awkward
AND- suppose you have to dodge a car
Perhaps a "Killer motorist" the sort that some posters here cross paths with very frequently(once every 20 years for me)
Or just a distracted person-texting,reaching for radio
You really wouldn't want that foot hanging over there if you wanted to swerve suddenly
And that hill-maybe 50-60 ft elevation gain-not much for all that expense?
I'm guessing BIKE ESCALATORS didn't catch on anywhere
bikes are a simple cheap compact solution to short trip travel
Bike escalator-???
Now a Big hill-mountain- 500-1000 ft elevation gain-if LOTS of riders made the trip-say to work at some mine maybe-might make sense?
07-11-14, 10:32 AM
#60
New Orleans
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,794
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
The columnist didn't actually "call for assaulting cyclists"
so original heading was a lie
What the columnist actual wrote was typical "I don't like bikes bike riders-if they keep pissing "us off" someone might run them over"
"Lots" of drivers and pedestrians don't like bike riders.
Nothing new there
07-11-14, 11:16 AM
#61
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 272
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 35 Times
in
18 Posts
Oh, I like.
I'm not a regular reader of the Post, or indeed any of the old gray ladies, but from past visits to the tired hack's copy shop I think Milloy is not the only one who's a bad boy yet stays on Santa's list.
For cyclists, silly season never ends.
As a college comp professor, I'm always on the look out for examples of logical fallacies. In this, Courtland Milloy is the gift that keeps on giving. Seriously--the gang's all here: strawman, hasty generalizations, red herrings, weak analogies. I so often use his columns to illustrate ineffective rhetorical choices that I feel like I should offer him a stipend of some sort just to make sure he continues turning this stuff out. Has there ever been a columnist for the Post so less aware of the rhetorical situation?
For cyclists, silly season never ends.
Last edited by 905; 07-11-14 at 02:29 PM.
07-11-14, 11:33 AM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
The escalator is 4-6 mph. My personal opinion: ridiculous. Why would an active person be averse to walking a short distance uphill?
07-11-14, 12:06 PM
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
I'll admit if there were one of those on the mile long, 8% to 10% grade hill I climb on my way home after 10 + hours at work I would use it with no shame. I can ride it on my 8 and 21 speeds but need to walk it with my 3 speeds. From what I've seen most just take the bus up the hill but I'm a cheapskate.
07-11-14, 12:19 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany/Arlington, VA
Posts: 494
Bikes: Surly Pugsley, Jamis Renegade, Kona Rove, Salsa Pistola, Raleigh M60, Raleigh Sport Touring Team USA
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
One day, all, non essential vehicle traffic will be gone from the streets of cities like D.C., NYC, Philadelphia, Chicago and other metro areas with five figure population densities. As I understand it, the entire European Union plans to be (urban) car free by 2050. In America it will not take longer than that, but the fight will be bloodier. America's baby boomers are just as stubborn in their car addiction as they believe the cyclist community to be in their car free advocacy. At least the cyclist community does not have the destruction of the biome as a consequence of its existence.
H
H
07-11-14, 12:51 PM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 96
Bikes: 1988 Centurion Le Mans RS (stolen!), 2009 Bianchi Pista (48-16), 2014 Gunnar Sport (Arrived! Pictures soon!)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Not sure if any of you saw this, probably got swallowed up in this whole controversy, but instead of displaying his general jack***ery, Courtland Milloy probably should have written something more along the lines of this: Hey, infuriated D.C. bikers and drivers, can?t we all just get along? - The Washington Post
07-11-14, 01:32 PM
#66
Senior Member
@huizar: Several of the Post's columnists have gotten into the act since Milloy's column was posted. I know a lot of people are accusing them of posting "click-bait" and I'm starting to believe it. It's as if they're saying, "Wow, look at all the traffic Milloy's column got. I want a piece of this action."
07-11-14, 01:38 PM
#67
Senior Member
Except I have a major problem with singling out just one group because it doesn't address the overall issue and results in absolutely nothing except flame wars. What we are really talking about here isn't bikes, it's traffic safety, and anyone who is genuinely concerned about the subject would take all offenders to task, not just one subset. The mode of transport is incidental (although a strong case should can be made that an emphasis should be placed on the group that causes the most injuries and fatalities, namely motor vehicles).
07-11-14, 04:01 PM
#68
New Orleans
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,794
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I'll admit if there were one of those on the mile long, 8% to 10% grade hill I climb on my way home after 10 + hours at work I would use it with no shame. I can ride it on my 8 and 21 speeds but need to walk it with my 3 speeds. From what I've seen most just take the bus up the hill but I'm a cheapskate.
I would probably break down and get an electric "boost" for my bike(if I didn't just drive-which is what I do)
Just gaining 500 ft- assuming about 200 lbs- 1/3 hp 500 seconds-8 1/2 minutes
and no way could I put out 1/3 hp for more than a few seconds
so figure 15 minutes per 500 ft-and dead tired
My "workout fun ride" up and down river levee-maybe 15 20 ft mini climbs- 24 minutes-just 300 feet of gain
but I am old-63 fat 180 5'5" and it is hot in NOLA
yeah kickstart-get an electric boost-(assuming you can lock it well at work)
wphamilton- so just 80 foot gain?? Wow awfully complicated "fix" for a not a problem problem.
07-12-14, 12:30 PM
#69
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 4,299
Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2208 Post(s)
Liked 960 Times
in
686 Posts
Except I have a major problem with singling out just one group because it doesn't address the overall issue and results in absolutely nothing except flame wars. What we are really talking about here isn't bikes, it's traffic safety, and anyone who is genuinely concerned about the subject would take all offenders to task, not just one subset. The mode of transport is incidental (although a strong case should can be made that an emphasis should be placed on the group that causes the most injuries and fatalities, namely motor vehicles).
Where there is no doubt that in a car/cyclist situation the car will always win, but it isn't to say that the car driver is always at fault or that any and all cyclist act they way they should.
07-12-14, 02:52 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Wow 1 mile 500 ft gain-at the end of a work day-hmmmm
I would probably break down and get an electric "boost" for my bike(if I didn't just drive-which is what I do)
Just gaining 500 ft- assuming about 200 lbs- 1/3 hp 500 seconds-8 1/2 minutes
and no way could I put out 1/3 hp for more than a few seconds
so figure 15 minutes per 500 ft-and dead tired
My "workout fun ride" up and down river levee-maybe 15 20 ft mini climbs- 24 minutes-just 300 feet of gain
but I am old-63 fat 180 5'5" and it is hot in NOLA
yeah kickstart-get an electric boost-(assuming you can lock it well at work)
I would probably break down and get an electric "boost" for my bike(if I didn't just drive-which is what I do)
Just gaining 500 ft- assuming about 200 lbs- 1/3 hp 500 seconds-8 1/2 minutes
and no way could I put out 1/3 hp for more than a few seconds
so figure 15 minutes per 500 ft-and dead tired
My "workout fun ride" up and down river levee-maybe 15 20 ft mini climbs- 24 minutes-just 300 feet of gain
but I am old-63 fat 180 5'5" and it is hot in NOLA
yeah kickstart-get an electric boost-(assuming you can lock it well at work)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
invisiblehand
Advocacy & Safety
196
10-18-10 09:50 PM
