Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-23-14, 05:14 PM   #1
dougmc
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
dougmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Bikes: Giant OCR2, Bridgestone RB-T, Bike-E, Vision R-40, Novara Safari
Posts: 3,029
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cyclist crashes, lands on his feet

It's a pretty run of the mill left hook situation (except that I guess it's a right hook, having happened near London) but the way it turned out is quite remarkable -- everything went flying, but the cyclist landed on his feet.

Romford Cycle Crash - Original - YouTube

It's also commonplace in that the driver originally accepted responsibility, and then backpedalled on it later ... but the video made things quite clear.

Do have the sound on for this, but be aware ... he says a [completely justified] bad word.

At least the police don't seem to be threatening to charge him for his utterence of that bad word.
dougmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 07:18 PM   #2
enoli7
Newbie
 
enoli7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Houston
Bikes: Marin Portofino
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Once when my brother and I were little, my brother (who's a few years older than me) got way ahead of the family bike pack. He ended up HITTING a car coming out of an intersection, then rolling over the hood, taking off the mirror, and landing on his feet. Not a scratch on my brother... he was so embarrassed though.
enoli7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 09:34 PM   #3
keyven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Bikes: Giant Anthem X1 2009; Brompton M2R 2014; Brompton Ti M6R 2014
Posts: 1,091
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
It's a pretty run of the mill left hook situation (except that I guess it's a right hook, having happened near London) but the way it turned out is quite remarkable -- everything went flying, but the cyclist landed on his feet.

Romford Cycle Crash - Original - YouTube

It's also commonplace in that the driver originally accepted responsibility, and then backpedalled on it later ... but the video made things quite clear.

Do have the sound on for this, but be aware ... he says a [completely justified] bad word.

At least the police don't seem to be threatening to charge him for his utterence of that bad word.
It looked like the setup of a Hollywood action movie , the kind that people would laugh at and remark how unrealistic it looked.

The driver is clearly an idiot, because he/she slowed at the turn but seemed to have completely missed the cyclist. I'm tempted to believe he/she may have been blocked by the A-frame - as will happen from time to time - but even that seems highly unlikely.
keyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 09:40 PM   #4
Northwestrider
Senior Member
 
Northwestrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Bikes: Surly Long Haul Trucker, Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo, Dahon Mu P 24 , Bacchetta Strada, Rodriguez Tandem, Wheeler MTB
Posts: 2,453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Interesting video,
Northwestrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 05:24 AM   #5
mrodgers
Senior Member
 
mrodgers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Western PA
Bikes: 2014 Giant Escape 1
Posts: 1,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyven View Post
It looked like the setup of a Hollywood action movie , the kind that people would laugh at and remark how unrealistic it looked.

The driver is clearly an idiot, because he/she slowed at the turn but seemed to have completely missed the cyclist. I'm tempted to believe he/she may have been blocked by the A-frame - as will happen from time to time - but even that seems highly unlikely.
Stop at 18 seconds and there is nothing that would be blocking the driver's view of the cyclist coming down the road. But, with it raining, visibility is diminished and I have no idea if the cyclist had a front light or what colors of clothing he was wearing. A cyclist would be very difficult to notice against all the dark and dreary surroundings if not using a light and brightly colored clothing.
mrodgers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 05:59 AM   #6
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrodgers View Post
Stop at 18 seconds and there is nothing that would be blocking the driver's view of the cyclist coming down the road. But, with it raining, visibility is diminished and I have no idea if the cyclist had a front light or what colors of clothing he was wearing. A cyclist would be very difficult to notice against all the dark and dreary surroundings if not using a light and brightly colored clothing.
Bright blue long sleeve jersey,
black cycling shorts with fuchsia trim,
white shoes with fuchsia trim,
black socks with fuchsia trim,
yellow lens cycling glasses with white rim and fuchsia temples,
black and white fingerless cycling gloves.

Riding a white Giant Propel Advanced 2.

But even if he was running blinky lights, not enough lumens, so it's the clearly the cyclist's fault, right?

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 08:20 AM   #7
ItsJustMe
Señior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Posts: 13,124
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Situations like this is why I recently bought a little flea-sized front light that flashes. When driving my car around cyclists, I noticed that even a small white strobe is SUPER noticeable especially in rainy conditions. The one I got is ridiculously small and light, and in strobe mode runs a few weeks on a USB recharge.

Great video btw. Hope the rider got fully compensated for all losses.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 08:36 AM   #8
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 24,772
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 459 Post(s)
I was wondering how much warning the cyclist had... if there were enough time for him to avoid the motorist...

Of course I have the armchair luxury of going back and forth with the video to see what exactly happened.

I doubt I could have reacted in time... especially if I were watching the motorist on my left as the motorist on the right made the unsignaled turn... clearly one of those situations in which you really cannot see everything at once, and thus are vulnerable.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 09:58 AM   #9
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Posts: 29,949
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 360 Post(s)
IME based on personal experience, and anecdotal evidence from friends (1st hand), if you're going to crash with a car, you're usually better off if you hit the car than if the car hits you. The best way is exactly like this event, where the rider hits the front end, the bike crumples and launches the rider over the hood (bonnet) where the rider can land and roll on the pavement. I know of one instance where a friend hit a car head on with a combined of about 75mph (car/50 bike/25) and the rider flew over clearing the car, and landed with a tuck and roll sustaining only very minor road rash.

So I'm impressed with this rider's aerobatics, but not totally surprised.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-14, 10:41 AM   #10
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
I was wondering how much warning the cyclist had... if there were enough time for him to avoid the motorist...

Of course I have the armchair luxury of going back and forth with the video to see what exactly happened.

I doubt I could have reacted in time... especially if I were watching the motorist on my left as the motorist on the right made the unsignaled turn... clearly one of those situations in which you really cannot see everything at once, and thus are vulnerable.
I have no doubt - you could not have - even with the late turn signal. Turn signal goes on.
Weight transfers to left front wheel.

Plan A is heavy braking - executed.
Plan B left bailout - NOPE - fence beyond curb and can't possibly make the left turn between the curb and the uncoming car.
Plan C right bailout - NOPE - traffic immediately behind.

Plan A least bad. Left hooks so suck.

Love the woman with the Bart Simpson lunchbox. "Ooooooh. You alright? Sit down for a sec, mate, sit down." A wee bit of humanity can sure brighten up a bad day.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 07-24-14 at 10:47 AM.
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-14, 12:52 AM   #11
keyven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Bikes: Giant Anthem X1 2009; Brompton M2R 2014; Brompton Ti M6R 2014
Posts: 1,091
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Bright blue long sleeve jersey,
black cycling shorts with fuchsia trim,
white shoes with fuchsia trim,
black socks with fuchsia trim,
yellow lens cycling glasses with white rim and fuchsia temples,
black and white fingerless cycling gloves.

Riding a white Giant Propel Advanced 2.

But even if he was running blinky lights, not enough lumens, so it's the clearly the cyclist's fault, right?

-mr. bill
I was going to reply that we could see clearly what he was wearing in the video post-accident - so why even question it? I was leaving my office so I just forgot about it until today.

I don't believe the 'lowered visibility' caused by a cloudy day and drizzle is a strong mitigating factor in this incident.

As for the A-pillar being a potential factor - remember that in the UK the driver sits on the RIGHT HAND SIDE of the car, so when her car was angled, she might have glanced leftwards for signs of incoming traffic, but a small chunk of her view was blocked/obscured by the A-pillar. There was obviously no cars on the road, but not seeing the cyclist could really have been a matter of bad timing and sheer coincidence.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's certainly a (tiny) possibility.
keyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-14, 09:27 AM   #12
italktocats
Senior Member
 
italktocats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyven View Post
I was going to reply that we could see clearly what he was wearing in the video post-accident - so why even question it? I was leaving my office so I just forgot about it until today.

I don't believe the 'lowered visibility' caused by a cloudy day and drizzle is a strong mitigating factor in this incident.

As for the A-pillar being a potential factor - remember that in the UK the driver sits on the RIGHT HAND SIDE of the car, so when her car was angled, she might have glanced leftwards for signs of incoming traffic, but a small chunk of her view was blocked/obscured by the A-pillar. There was obviously no cars on the road, but not seeing the cyclist could really have been a matter of bad timing and sheer coincidence.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's certainly a (tiny) possibility.
that a-pillar was new ofcourse, there was no reason she could have known it was there
italktocats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-14, 12:57 PM   #13
wphamilton
rugged individualist
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Posts: 10,037
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
IME based on personal experience, and anecdotal evidence from friends (1st hand), if you're going to crash with a car, you're usually better off if you hit the car than if the car hits you. The best way is exactly like this event, where the rider hits the front end, the bike crumples and launches the rider over the hood (bonnet) where the rider can land and roll on the pavement. I know of one instance where a friend hit a car head on with a combined of about 75mph (car/50 bike/25) and the rider flew over clearing the car, and landed with a tuck and roll sustaining only very minor road rash.

So I'm impressed with this rider's aerobatics, but not totally surprised.
Once you miss the vehicle (with your body) the worst part is over. Of course you still need to know how to tuck and roll.
wphamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-14, 02:00 PM   #14
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
You all do realize the windshield struck the cyclist?

Hard.

(I hesitate to speculate what the camera was attached to for fear of sending this thread directly to the everlasting gobstopper thread.)

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 07-26-14 at 02:04 PM.
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-14, 06:54 PM   #15
keyven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Bikes: Giant Anthem X1 2009; Brompton M2R 2014; Brompton Ti M6R 2014
Posts: 1,091
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by italktocats View Post
that a-pillar was new ofcourse, there was no reason she could have known it was there
Seems I made a mistake, upon closer inspection I very much doubt the A-pillar could have blocked her view.

Idiot then
keyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 02:09 AM   #16
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Bikes:
Posts: 3,702
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Bright blue long sleeve jersey,
black cycling shorts with fuchsia trim,
white shoes with fuchsia trim,
black socks with fuchsia trim,
yellow lens cycling glasses with white rim and fuchsia temples,
black and white fingerless cycling gloves.

Riding a white Giant Propel Advanced 2.

But even if he was running blinky lights, not enough lumens, so it's the clearly the cyclist's fault, right?

-mr. bill
I blame him for poor fashion sense...where is chipcom when they are needed?
__________________
Dear banned sock puppets...stop taking all the potential great ID names from future newbies?
Rollfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-14, 05:22 AM   #17
mrodgers
Senior Member
 
mrodgers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Western PA
Bikes: 2014 Giant Escape 1
Posts: 1,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Bright blue long sleeve jersey,
black cycling shorts with fuchsia trim,
white shoes with fuchsia trim,
black socks with fuchsia trim,
yellow lens cycling glasses with white rim and fuchsia temples,
black and white fingerless cycling gloves.

Riding a white Giant Propel Advanced 2.

But even if he was running blinky lights, not enough lumens, so it's the clearly the cyclist's fault, right?

-mr. bill
I will admit to watching a choppy video at work in the morning (we don't have the best computers here) and not noticing what he was wearing and then replying the following day to the post I quoted after looking only to the moment the car appeared in the video to see if there would have been any physical obstructions to block the cyclist.

I still wouldn't call that attire laid out above highly visible in that kind of weather. I never said it was the cyclist's fault, but it certainly would be smart to be as visible as you can be when riding a bicycle with clothing and lighting. Again, fully the driver's fault, but I can still see how the cyclist was not easily noticed.
mrodgers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 04:59 PM   #18
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2
Posts: 2,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Plan A least bad. Left hooks so suck.
Most left hooks are avoidable if you ride defensively enough. That means slowing down enough to give yourself options to avoid the collision. The rider in the video seemed to be going pretty fast and wasn't letting up for anything. I can't tell from the super wide angle lens if the car's turn signal was on the whole time. IMO if you see a turn signal you better assume they're going to hook you. Even better is to assume all cars are out to hook you. Bright front flashers certainly help . They'll see you but may still turn anyways.
Dunbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 05:59 PM   #19
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
Most left hooks are avoidable if you ride defensively enough.... Even better is to assume all cars are out to hook you....
No, most left hooks are not avoidable. (IF they were avoidable, they weren't a left hook.) Mine I was inside a cage. It still hurt like hell, and climbing out the window NASCAR style sucks. Mild concussion. Bruised ribs. The skid marks were 3 yards. Trust me, you couldn't have done better.

NOBODY, NOBODY drives like every approaching car is going to left (or right in jolly old) hook you. NOBODY, NOBODY, should ride that way either.

Stop blaming the victim.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 08-07-14 at 09:24 PM.
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 07:49 PM   #20
350htrr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Bikes: 27 speed oryx with over 38,000Km on it, 10,000Km with a BionX assist on it
Posts: 2,338
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
That kind of outcome is what most helmetless riders seem to think would be actually achievable because of their riding skills, not really getting hurt... NOT...
350htrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 08:47 PM   #21
wphamilton
rugged individualist
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Posts: 10,037
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
That kind of outcome is what most helmetless riders seem to think would be actually achievable because of their riding skills, not really getting hurt... NOT...
That kind of thing is not actually a riding skill, but it IS a skill that can be practiced and learned. And if someone is really that concerned about head injuries, he really ought to put the effort in to learn basic break-falls and rolls.
wphamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 08:52 PM   #22
gpsblake
Walmart bike rider
 
gpsblake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Carolina
Bikes:
Posts: 1,889
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
And the judges score the landing... 10, 10, 10, 9, 10....
gpsblake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 09:25 PM   #23
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 1,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
That kind of thing is not actually a riding skill, but it IS a skill that can be practiced and learned. And if someone is really that concerned about head injuries, he really ought to put the effort in to learn basic break-falls and rolls.
Take it to the everlasting gobstopper thread. (Some folks can both execute the skill *AND* wear the thing that must not be named.)

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 09:59 PM   #24
Dunbar
Senior Member
 
Dunbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Roubaix SL4 Expert , Cervelo S2
Posts: 2,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
NOBODY, NOBODY drives like every approaching car is going to left (or right in jolly old) hook you. NOBODY, NOBODY, should ride that way either.
Yes, yes, yes some of us do ride defensively especially near intersections like that. The car was using a turn signal, gee you think it might turn there? I don't know how many times I would've have been hit now if I rode like every car was going to yield to me like they were supposed to. I see plenty of cyclists riding like that though (I guess they're relying on their good karma.)

Doesn't do you a whole lot of good to be in the right legally and severely injured or dead. And BTW, cars travel at much higher speeds than bicycles so your anecdote about being in a left hook automobile accident is not particularly relevant here.

Last edited by Dunbar; 08-07-14 at 10:10 PM.
Dunbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 10:59 PM   #25
yugyug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: antipodes
Bikes:
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
IME based on personal experience, and anecdotal evidence from friends (1st hand), if you're going to crash with a car, you're usually better off if you hit the car than if the car hits you. The best way is exactly like this event, where the rider hits the front end, the bike crumples and launches the rider over the hood (bonnet) where the rider can land and roll on the pavement. I know of one instance where a friend hit a car head on with a combined of about 75mph (car/50 bike/25) and the rider flew over clearing the car, and landed with a tuck and roll sustaining only very minor road rash.

So I'm impressed with this rider's aerobatics, but not totally surprised.
This is very true I think. My case was very similar to this video, hitting the same way at a combined 60 or 70kpmh, except I also bounced of the windscreen and knocked over a stationary motor cyclist, waiting at the cross street lights (he was fine). No acrobatics, just my surprised body flying haphazardly through the air, but relatively minor injuries. That the windscreen is sloped on many cars seems significant, it must absorb some impact force deflecting your body.
yugyug is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:15 AM.