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  1. #76
    BF Avatar Zombie Hunter Jseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    2007 in Montreal - 300 kph, Kubica was taken to hospital with a "mild" concussion and sprained ankle - released the next day.
    (They don't regularly test carbon fiber that way btw.)

    My crabon fared far better there, plodding along an order of magnitude slower, 100 meters further along the circuit at turn 10:

    -mr. bill
    CF is making its way into F1 suspension...now that's pretty interesting. Serious G there. Then again..Dreamliner wings aren't slackers.
    Amerika, Land of the Very Brief.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Buster View Post
    One more data point to add to the ecological discussion is that CF bikes actually sequester carbon and apparently for a long, long time. I don't know where that carbon comes from but if it came from the atmosphere in the form of living plant matter, it could be a net gain ecologically.
    Where did you here that? Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    LCA shows that carbon generally uses less energy and releases less GHG than aluminum and titanium. when it comes to steel vs crabon...it depends. a number of startups are working on commercial-scale production of carbon fiber from sustainable plant matter.
    Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!

    Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
    Last edited by yugyug; 08-02-14 at 12:39 AM.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugyug View Post
    Where did you here that? Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines?



    Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!

    Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
    Eh? The whole point of my post was that if it were made of living plant matter it would sequester carbon. (C02 comes out of atmosphere, goes into plants, carbon from plants goes into bike)
    A ride on a bike is not a walk in the park

  4. #79
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    I do that whenever I eat at Taco Bell.
    Does anybody wanna make a white castle run? I buy, you fly. And I don't care if you ride a crabon racing bike, in lycra, to get there, or take a recumbent while wearing rugby shorts.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    LCA shows that carbon generally uses less energy and releases less GHG than aluminum and titanium. when it comes to steel vs crabon...it depends. a number of startups are working on commercial-scale production of carbon fiber from sustainable plant matter.
    Does that take into account the resources used to crop the "sustainable plant matter"?

  6. #81
    Don from Austin Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
    Posted on my facebook page which has several members in cycling was this bit of information. In professional racing, riders are experiencing sudden failure of their carbon frames. It was reported that the failure is so complete, and the frame usually shatters...............
    From my very limited testing, CF does not shatter. After shortening CF steerers or bars, I test the cut off pieces on a heavy duty bench vise or my shop press. Never have I seen anything more than deformation. Again, this is limited testing, but CF is not glass or Wedgewood China.

    Don in Austin

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by yugyug View Post
    Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!

    Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
    If money were no object I'd buy a custom bike with ti lugs and carbon tubing...

    At the bottom of this post:

    The dirty little secret about carbon fiber bikes
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  8. #83
    Senior Member KD5NRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
    Ha! I just want to know why everybody is wearing white shoes?
    Dye has weight.

  9. #84
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
    Dye has weight.
    Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  10. #85
    Home School Valedictorian 02Giant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jseis View Post
    CF is making its way into F1 suspension...now that's pretty interesting. Serious G there. Then again..Dreamliner wings aren't slackers.
    The wishbones on F1 cars have been carbon fiber for close to 20 years.
    We've got no fear, no doubt, all in balls out

  11. #86
    Senior Member KD5NRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
    I know a good exhaust guy who can build you a frame from sch40 2" steel pipe. Would that be enough weight?

  12. #87
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
    I know a good exhaust guy who can build you a frame from sch40 2" steel pipe. Would that be enough weight?
    Hahahahaha, that is really funny lol I hope it will be a stainless steel ;-)
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
    So what makes you think that some riders (what you call "roadies") don't use mirrors or lights to "save weight"? That just seems absurd to me. I personally don't use them because they're not needed. The weight is insignificant.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
    cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  15. #90
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
    Statistically safer? What/which "statistics" did you select for the safety comparison?

  16. #91
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
    So what makes you think that some riders (what you call "roadies") don't use mirrors or lights to "save weight"? That just seems absurd to me. I personally don't use them because they're not needed. The weight is insignificant.
    That is what I hear from each and everyone I ask. They call it "not needed weight", believing that it makes them much faster... Some places are much safer to ride than others, but when you sharing the road with cars - it just makes sense to use these wonderful, life saving and most likely cool looking things. A lot of folks talk to me after they see my lights and/or rear view mirror. Pretty cool conversation piece lol

    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
    I ALWAYS use lights and mirror, even if I go for a short 15 mile ride. It's so easy to see what's behind you without turning around. Actually it saved my life twice already. I will never go for a ride without my mirror. The lights I use are pretty powerful (1,2 and 3 watt LED rear blinkies, depending on which bike and where I go) Each of them is very visible in a daylight. Front is around 1000 lumens, which is a similar brightness to an average car headlamp. It's not only cool, but also safe....to me it's a no-brainer.
    "The clear problem of the outlawing of insult is that too many things can be interpreted as such. Criticism, ridicule, sarcasm, merely stating an alternative point of view to the orthodoxy, can be interpreted as insult." - Rowan Atkinson
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    ....to me it's a no-brainer.
    Seems appropriate.
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  18. #93
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Seems appropriate.
    Uh, oh... You again. Nothing better, more helpful on your mind?
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
    So what makes you think that some riders (what you call "roadies") don't use mirrors or lights to "save weight"? That just seems absurd to me. I personally don't use them because they're not needed. The weight is insignificant.
    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    That is what I hear from each and everyone I ask. They call it "not needed weight", believing that it makes them much faster... Some places are much safer to ride than others, but when you sharing the road with cars - it just makes sense to use these wonderful, life saving and most likely cool looking things. A lot of folks talk to me after they see my lights and/or rear view mirror. Pretty cool conversation piece lol
    Call me skeptical - It's very hard for me to believe anyone would claim that a light and a mirror is significant weight. But you say it's true, so I'll believe you.

    Now, I do understand, and agree with those who don't carry anythign they don't feel is necessary for safe riding. That includes me. Mirrors don't add anything to my personal safe riding. Lights? yes, maybe if I were to ride at night, which I don't do.

    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
    I ALWAYS use lights and mirror, even if I go for a short 15 mile ride. It's so easy to see what's behind you without turning around. Actually it saved my life twice already. I will never go for a ride without my mirror. The lights I use are pretty powerful (1,2 and 3 watt LED rear blinkies, depending on which bike and where I go) Each of them is very visible in a daylight. Front is around 1000 lumens, which is a similar brightness to an average car headlamp. It's not only cool, but also safe....to me it's a no-brainer.
    He was asking if you used a lights and a mirror when walking. We already know you think it's critical for riding - fine. But for walking? That's dangerous too.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    U.... Nothing better, more helpful on your mind?
    not on this thread, anyway the setup was too good to resist. I'll leave actual debate on this thread to those who care.
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  21. #96
    Big, Fat, Texan WalksOn2Wheels's Avatar
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    Well, even though the thread has derailed itself beyond anything resembling a sound discourse, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the original article in question.

    When I first read it, I thought it was hilarious. I'm supposed to take the author's word that basically every team and rider they talked to (the impression they give) will suddenly tell you how their bikes fall apart while just riding along on a regular basis. Absolute BS. No doubt teams are hard on equipment, and if anyone is going to break a frame, I would expect it to be a pro rider before it would be a weekend warrior doing laps at the lake. However, I think this author is stretching some anecdotal evidence pretty hard.

    First and foremost: You anti CF people really, REALLY need to give up this battle. You can ride whatever you want and not ride CF on principle, but you do realize that carbon tubulars have fully replaced Amborsio alloy rims at Paris-Roubaix, right? CF has come a LONG way and is much, much stronger than earlier iterations. Steel is awesome, Ti is wonderful, and Aluminum is great. But there is no need to hate on carbon, seriously.

    And let's all ask ourselves: When is the last time you saw a major, major equipment failure that caused a rider to crash? Oh right, that was friggin' years ago with Hincapie (at Roubaix, again) breaking his ALUMINUM steerer.

    So with the amount of CF bikes and wheels out there I should expect bikes to just be crumbling beneath riders in such brutal conditions as the Tour of Flanders, right? Well, sure, except that I've been watching the 2014 edition on youtube (boring trainer miles) and even though there seems to be something like a major crash or pileup every 10 or so kilometers in the middle section, I've not seen a single broken frame or fork, yet. The worst I saw was a front wheel missing from the dropouts of a bike, but the bike itself seemed whole.

    And as someone already mentioned, the only broken frame we saw on a very crash filled TdF was the result of two roof racks "locking horns" if you will. So, yeah.

  22. #97
    Senior Member zonatandem's Avatar
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    picasabackground.jpg
    40,000+ (forty thousand) miles on this custom full carbon fiber tandem and fork that's
    11 years old and weighs 26.5 lbs.
    No issues.

    Have broken 2 steel framed tandems (at 50,000 and at 56,000 miles) and also a steel fork at 13,000 miles.
    ANY material can eventually fatigue and fail.
    This is not an opinion, but fact and our own experience.

    We have ridden over 240,000 miles on tandem bicycles since 1975.

    Compelete_Bike_crop_1.jpeg

    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

  23. #98
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonatandem View Post


    We have ridden over 240,000 miles on tandem bicycles since 1975.

    Compelete_Bike_crop_1.jpeg

    Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
    Impressive numbers! Well done!
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  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Statistically safer? What/which "statistics" did you select for the safety comparison?
    This is fairly typical in PDX of late:

    Portland made it through 2013 with zero bike fatalities | Grist

    Tragically the same cannot be said for pedestrians:

    Pedestrian deaths should be wake-up call for Portland leaders: Guest opinion | OregonLive.com
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  25. #100
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    This analysis/comparison is fairly typical of some BF posters' method of determining that X activity is "statistically safer" than Y activity.

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