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Old 08-01-14, 08:58 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
2007 in Montreal - 300 kph, Kubica was taken to hospital with a "mild" concussion and sprained ankle - released the next day.
(They don't regularly test carbon fiber that way btw.)

My crabon fared far better there, plodding along an order of magnitude slower, 100 meters further along the circuit at turn 10:

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CF is making its way into F1 suspension...now that's pretty interesting. Serious G there. Then again..Dreamliner wings aren't slackers.
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Old 08-01-14, 11:23 PM   #77
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One more data point to add to the ecological discussion is that CF bikes actually sequester carbon and apparently for a long, long time. I don't know where that carbon comes from but if it came from the atmosphere in the form of living plant matter, it could be a net gain ecologically.
Where did you here that? Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines?

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LCA shows that carbon generally uses less energy and releases less GHG than aluminum and titanium. when it comes to steel vs crabon...it depends. a number of startups are working on commercial-scale production of carbon fiber from sustainable plant matter.
Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!

Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.

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Old 08-02-14, 06:15 AM   #78
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Where did you here that? Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines?



Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!

Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
Eh? The whole point of my post was that if it were made of living plant matter it would sequester carbon. (C02 comes out of atmosphere, goes into plants, carbon from plants goes into bike)
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Old 08-02-14, 09:52 AM   #79
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I do that whenever I eat at Taco Bell.
Does anybody wanna make a white castle run? I buy, you fly. And I don't care if you ride a crabon racing bike, in lycra, to get there, or take a recumbent while wearing rugby shorts.
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Old 08-03-14, 01:00 PM   #80
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LCA shows that carbon generally uses less energy and releases less GHG than aluminum and titanium. when it comes to steel vs crabon...it depends. a number of startups are working on commercial-scale production of carbon fiber from sustainable plant matter.
Does that take into account the resources used to crop the "sustainable plant matter"?
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Old 08-03-14, 05:40 PM   #81
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Posted on my facebook page which has several members in cycling was this bit of information. In professional racing, riders are experiencing sudden failure of their carbon frames. It was reported that the failure is so complete, and the frame usually shatters...............
From my very limited testing, CF does not shatter. After shortening CF steerers or bars, I test the cut off pieces on a heavy duty bench vise or my shop press. Never have I seen anything more than deformation. Again, this is limited testing, but CF is not glass or Wedgewood China.

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Old 08-04-14, 04:07 PM   #82
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Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!

Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
If money were no object I'd buy a custom bike with ti lugs and carbon tubing...

At the bottom of this post:

The dirty little secret about carbon fiber bikes
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Old 08-04-14, 04:18 PM   #83
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Ha! I just want to know why everybody is wearing white shoes?
Dye has weight.
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Old 08-05-14, 10:55 PM   #84
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Dye has weight.
Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
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Old 08-06-14, 07:29 AM   #85
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CF is making its way into F1 suspension...now that's pretty interesting. Serious G there. Then again..Dreamliner wings aren't slackers.
The wishbones on F1 cars have been carbon fiber for close to 20 years.
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Old 08-06-14, 12:07 PM   #86
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Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
I know a good exhaust guy who can build you a frame from sch40 2" steel pipe. Would that be enough weight?
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Old 08-06-14, 12:09 PM   #87
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I know a good exhaust guy who can build you a frame from sch40 2" steel pipe. Would that be enough weight?
Hahahahaha, that is really funny lol I hope it will be a stainless steel ;-)
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Old 08-06-14, 12:26 PM   #88
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Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
So what makes you think that some riders (what you call "roadies") don't use mirrors or lights to "save weight"? That just seems absurd to me. I personally don't use them because they're not needed. The weight is insignificant.
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Old 08-06-14, 12:54 PM   #89
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than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
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Old 08-06-14, 04:17 PM   #90
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cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
Statistically safer? What/which "statistics" did you select for the safety comparison?
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Old 08-06-14, 05:22 PM   #91
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So what makes you think that some riders (what you call "roadies") don't use mirrors or lights to "save weight"? That just seems absurd to me. I personally don't use them because they're not needed. The weight is insignificant.
That is what I hear from each and everyone I ask. They call it "not needed weight", believing that it makes them much faster... Some places are much safer to ride than others, but when you sharing the road with cars - it just makes sense to use these wonderful, life saving and most likely cool looking things. A lot of folks talk to me after they see my lights and/or rear view mirror. Pretty cool conversation piece lol

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cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
I ALWAYS use lights and mirror, even if I go for a short 15 mile ride. It's so easy to see what's behind you without turning around. Actually it saved my life twice already. I will never go for a ride without my mirror. The lights I use are pretty powerful (1,2 and 3 watt LED rear blinkies, depending on which bike and where I go) Each of them is very visible in a daylight. Front is around 1000 lumens, which is a similar brightness to an average car headlamp. It's not only cool, but also safe....to me it's a no-brainer.
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Old 08-06-14, 06:04 PM   #92
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....to me it's a no-brainer.
Seems appropriate.
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Old 08-06-14, 06:21 PM   #93
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Seems appropriate.
Uh, oh... You again. Nothing better, more helpful on your mind?
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Old 08-06-14, 09:52 PM   #94
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So what makes you think that some riders (what you call "roadies") don't use mirrors or lights to "save weight"? That just seems absurd to me. I personally don't use them because they're not needed. The weight is insignificant.
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That is what I hear from each and everyone I ask. They call it "not needed weight", believing that it makes them much faster... Some places are much safer to ride than others, but when you sharing the road with cars - it just makes sense to use these wonderful, life saving and most likely cool looking things. A lot of folks talk to me after they see my lights and/or rear view mirror. Pretty cool conversation piece lol
Call me skeptical - It's very hard for me to believe anyone would claim that a light and a mirror is significant weight. But you say it's true, so I'll believe you.

Now, I do understand, and agree with those who don't carry anythign they don't feel is necessary for safe riding. That includes me. Mirrors don't add anything to my personal safe riding. Lights? yes, maybe if I were to ride at night, which I don't do.

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cycling is statistically safer than walking where i live. just curious, lopek77, do you use lights and mirrors when you go for a stroll. and if not, why not?
Quote:
I ALWAYS use lights and mirror, even if I go for a short 15 mile ride. It's so easy to see what's behind you without turning around. Actually it saved my life twice already. I will never go for a ride without my mirror. The lights I use are pretty powerful (1,2 and 3 watt LED rear blinkies, depending on which bike and where I go) Each of them is very visible in a daylight. Front is around 1000 lumens, which is a similar brightness to an average car headlamp. It's not only cool, but also safe....to me it's a no-brainer.
He was asking if you used a lights and a mirror when walking. We already know you think it's critical for riding - fine. But for walking? That's dangerous too.
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Old 08-06-14, 10:04 PM   #95
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U.... Nothing better, more helpful on your mind?
not on this thread, anyway the setup was too good to resist. I'll leave actual debate on this thread to those who care.
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Old 08-06-14, 10:11 PM   #96
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Well, even though the thread has derailed itself beyond anything resembling a sound discourse, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the original article in question.

When I first read it, I thought it was hilarious. I'm supposed to take the author's word that basically every team and rider they talked to (the impression they give) will suddenly tell you how their bikes fall apart while just riding along on a regular basis. Absolute BS. No doubt teams are hard on equipment, and if anyone is going to break a frame, I would expect it to be a pro rider before it would be a weekend warrior doing laps at the lake. However, I think this author is stretching some anecdotal evidence pretty hard.

First and foremost: You anti CF people really, REALLY need to give up this battle. You can ride whatever you want and not ride CF on principle, but you do realize that carbon tubulars have fully replaced Amborsio alloy rims at Paris-Roubaix, right? CF has come a LONG way and is much, much stronger than earlier iterations. Steel is awesome, Ti is wonderful, and Aluminum is great. But there is no need to hate on carbon, seriously.

And let's all ask ourselves: When is the last time you saw a major, major equipment failure that caused a rider to crash? Oh right, that was friggin' years ago with Hincapie (at Roubaix, again) breaking his ALUMINUM steerer.

So with the amount of CF bikes and wheels out there I should expect bikes to just be crumbling beneath riders in such brutal conditions as the Tour of Flanders, right? Well, sure, except that I've been watching the 2014 edition on youtube (boring trainer miles) and even though there seems to be something like a major crash or pileup every 10 or so kilometers in the middle section, I've not seen a single broken frame or fork, yet. The worst I saw was a front wheel missing from the dropouts of a bike, but the bike itself seemed whole.

And as someone already mentioned, the only broken frame we saw on a very crash filled TdF was the result of two roof racks "locking horns" if you will. So, yeah.
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Old 08-06-14, 10:56 PM   #97
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40,000+ (forty thousand) miles on this custom full carbon fiber tandem and fork that's
11 years old and weighs 26.5 lbs.
No issues.

Have broken 2 steel framed tandems (at 50,000 and at 56,000 miles) and also a steel fork at 13,000 miles.
ANY material can eventually fatigue and fail.
This is not an opinion, but fact and our own experience.

We have ridden over 240,000 miles on tandem bicycles since 1975.



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Old 08-06-14, 11:23 PM   #98
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We have ridden over 240,000 miles on tandem bicycles since 1975.



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Impressive numbers! Well done!
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Old 08-07-14, 11:38 AM   #99
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Statistically safer? What/which "statistics" did you select for the safety comparison?
This is fairly typical in PDX of late:

Portland made it through 2013 with zero bike fatalities | Grist

Tragically the same cannot be said for pedestrians:

Pedestrian deaths should be wake-up call for Portland leaders: Guest opinion | OregonLive.com
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Old 08-07-14, 11:45 AM   #100
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This analysis/comparison is fairly typical of some BF posters' method of determining that X activity is "statistically safer" than Y activity.
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