The dirty little secret about carbon fiber bikes
08-01-14, 08:58 PM
#76
Other Worldly Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The old Northwest Coast.
Posts: 1,540
Bikes: 1973 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, 1981 Centurion Super LeMans, 2010 Gary Fisher Wahoo, 2003 Colnago Dream Lux, 2014 Giant Defy 1, 2015 Framed Bikes Minnesota 3.0, several older family Treks
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times
in
53 Posts
2007 in Montreal - 300 kph, Kubica was taken to hospital with a "mild" concussion and sprained ankle - released the next day.
(They don't regularly test carbon fiber that way btw.)
My crabon fared far better there, plodding along an order of magnitude slower, 100 meters further along the circuit at turn 10:
-mr. bill
(They don't regularly test carbon fiber that way btw.)
My crabon fared far better there, plodding along an order of magnitude slower, 100 meters further along the circuit at turn 10:
-mr. bill
__________________
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
Make ******* Grate Cheese Again
08-01-14, 11:23 PM
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: antipodes
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
One more data point to add to the ecological discussion is that CF bikes actually sequester carbon and apparently for a long, long time. I don't know where that carbon comes from but if it came from the atmosphere in the form of living plant matter, it could be a net gain ecologically.
Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines? Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
Last edited by yugyug; 08-01-14 at 11:39 PM.
08-02-14, 06:15 AM
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Carlstadt, NJ
Posts: 404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Where did you here that? Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines?
Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!
Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
Carbon fibre is an entirely petrochemical product- so in what way does digging petroleum up and processing it 'sequester' carbon? You mean because its not being burnt in engines? Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!
Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
08-03-14, 01:00 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332
Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Does that take into account the resources used to crop the "sustainable plant matter"?
08-03-14, 05:40 PM
#81
Don from Austin Texas
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,211
Bikes: Schwinn S25 "department store crap" FS MTB, home-made CF 26" hybrid, CF road bike with straight bar, various wierd frankenbikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Posted on my facebook page which has several members in cycling was this bit of information. In professional racing, riders are experiencing sudden failure of their carbon frames. It was reported that the failure is so complete, and the frame usually shatters...............
Don in Austin
08-04-14, 04:07 PM
#82
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Posts: 4,267
Bikes: NA
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Its a good point that alu production is very problematic. Though there are many ways to do LCAs and I wouldn't necessarily trust an LCA from a manufacturer (not saying thats where you got your info, just sayings its wise to be skeptical). Anyway I think alu was a step backwards for the bike industry too. Would like to say the same thing about titanium but its just so damm sexy...!
Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
Do you have a link to that info on plant-based CF? Would like to know more about that. My guess is that because plant-based polymer plastics tend to be weaker, more brittle etc than petrochemical polymers, plant-based CF will be likewise and maybe unsuitable for its typically high performance applications.
At the bottom of this post:
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...l#post16983712
08-05-14, 10:55 PM
#84
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: lower mitten
Posts: 1,555
Bikes: With round 700c & 26" wheels
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
08-06-14, 12:07 PM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697
Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
08-06-14, 12:26 PM
#88
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
Funny, and not funny at the same time. It's a sad reality, that roadies don't use rear lights or rear view mirrors, just to save weight. This is a very stupid practice. Personally, I don't care how much of additional (sometimes not needed) extra weight I have on my rides, but I think all this added weight helps me to be a stronger rider. I would rather come back home, than be hit and injured or killed while trying to cut my riding time.
08-06-14, 04:17 PM
#90
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
08-06-14, 05:22 PM
#91
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: lower mitten
Posts: 1,555
Bikes: With round 700c & 26" wheels
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I ALWAYS use lights and mirror, even if I go for a short 15 mile ride. It's so easy to see what's behind you without turning around. Actually it saved my life twice already. I will never go for a ride without my mirror. The lights I use are pretty powerful (1,2 and 3 watt LED rear blinkies, depending on which bike and where I go) Each of them is very visible in a daylight. Front is around 1000 lumens, which is a similar brightness to an average car headlamp. It's not only cool, but also safe....to me it's a no-brainer.
08-06-14, 06:04 PM
#92
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,689
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,420 Posts
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
08-06-14, 09:52 PM
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
That is what I hear from each and everyone I ask. They call it "not needed weight", believing that it makes them much faster... Some places are much safer to ride than others, but when you sharing the road with cars - it just makes sense to use these wonderful, life saving and most likely cool looking things. A lot of folks talk to me after they see my lights and/or rear view mirror. Pretty cool conversation piece lol
Now, I do understand, and agree with those who don't carry anythign they don't feel is necessary for safe riding. That includes me. Mirrors don't add anything to my personal safe riding. Lights? yes, maybe if I were to ride at night, which I don't do.
I ALWAYS use lights and mirror, even if I go for a short 15 mile ride. It's so easy to see what's behind you without turning around. Actually it saved my life twice already. I will never go for a ride without my mirror. The lights I use are pretty powerful (1,2 and 3 watt LED rear blinkies, depending on which bike and where I go) Each of them is very visible in a daylight. Front is around 1000 lumens, which is a similar brightness to an average car headlamp. It's not only cool, but also safe....to me it's a no-brainer.
08-06-14, 10:04 PM
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,689
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5772 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,420 Posts
not on this thread, anyway the setup was too good to resist. I'll leave actual debate on this thread to those who care.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
08-06-14, 10:11 PM
#96
Vain, But Lacking Talent
Well, even though the thread has derailed itself beyond anything resembling a sound discourse, I just wanted to share my thoughts on the original article in question.
When I first read it, I thought it was hilarious. I'm supposed to take the author's word that basically every team and rider they talked to (the impression they give) will suddenly tell you how their bikes fall apart while just riding along on a regular basis. Absolute BS. No doubt teams are hard on equipment, and if anyone is going to break a frame, I would expect it to be a pro rider before it would be a weekend warrior doing laps at the lake. However, I think this author is stretching some anecdotal evidence pretty hard.
First and foremost: You anti CF people really, REALLY need to give up this battle. You can ride whatever you want and not ride CF on principle, but you do realize that carbon tubulars have fully replaced Amborsio alloy rims at Paris-Roubaix, right? CF has come a LONG way and is much, much stronger than earlier iterations. Steel is awesome, Ti is wonderful, and Aluminum is great. But there is no need to hate on carbon, seriously.
And let's all ask ourselves: When is the last time you saw a major, major equipment failure that caused a rider to crash? Oh right, that was friggin' years ago with Hincapie (at Roubaix, again) breaking his ALUMINUM steerer.
So with the amount of CF bikes and wheels out there I should expect bikes to just be crumbling beneath riders in such brutal conditions as the Tour of Flanders, right? Well, sure, except that I've been watching the 2014 edition on youtube (boring trainer miles) and even though there seems to be something like a major crash or pileup every 10 or so kilometers in the middle section, I've not seen a single broken frame or fork, yet. The worst I saw was a front wheel missing from the dropouts of a bike, but the bike itself seemed whole.
And as someone already mentioned, the only broken frame we saw on a very crash filled TdF was the result of two roof racks "locking horns" if you will. So, yeah.
When I first read it, I thought it was hilarious. I'm supposed to take the author's word that basically every team and rider they talked to (the impression they give) will suddenly tell you how their bikes fall apart while just riding along on a regular basis. Absolute BS. No doubt teams are hard on equipment, and if anyone is going to break a frame, I would expect it to be a pro rider before it would be a weekend warrior doing laps at the lake. However, I think this author is stretching some anecdotal evidence pretty hard.
First and foremost: You anti CF people really, REALLY need to give up this battle. You can ride whatever you want and not ride CF on principle, but you do realize that carbon tubulars have fully replaced Amborsio alloy rims at Paris-Roubaix, right? CF has come a LONG way and is much, much stronger than earlier iterations. Steel is awesome, Ti is wonderful, and Aluminum is great. But there is no need to hate on carbon, seriously.
And let's all ask ourselves: When is the last time you saw a major, major equipment failure that caused a rider to crash? Oh right, that was friggin' years ago with Hincapie (at Roubaix, again) breaking his ALUMINUM steerer.
So with the amount of CF bikes and wheels out there I should expect bikes to just be crumbling beneath riders in such brutal conditions as the Tour of Flanders, right? Well, sure, except that I've been watching the 2014 edition on youtube (boring trainer miles) and even though there seems to be something like a major crash or pileup every 10 or so kilometers in the middle section, I've not seen a single broken frame or fork, yet. The worst I saw was a front wheel missing from the dropouts of a bike, but the bike itself seemed whole.
And as someone already mentioned, the only broken frame we saw on a very crash filled TdF was the result of two roof racks "locking horns" if you will. So, yeah.
08-06-14, 10:56 PM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 11,016
Bikes: Custom Zona c/f tandem + Scott Plasma single
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 19 Times
in
11 Posts
40,000+ (forty thousand) miles on this custom full carbon fiber tandem and fork that's
11 years old and weighs 26.5 lbs.
No issues.
Have broken 2 steel framed tandems (at 50,000 and at 56,000 miles) and also a steel fork at 13,000 miles.
ANY material can eventually fatigue and fail.
This is not an opinion, but fact and our own experience.
We have ridden over 240,000 miles on tandem bicycles since 1975.
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem
08-07-14, 11:38 AM
#99
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Posts: 4,267
Bikes: NA
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Portland made it through 2013 with zero bike fatalities | Grist
Tragically the same cannot be said for pedestrians:
Pedestrian deaths should be wake-up call for Portland leaders: Guest opinion | OregonLive.com
08-07-14, 11:45 AM
#100
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,969
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,043 Posts
This is fairly typical in PDX of late:
Portland made it through 2013 with zero bike fatalities | Grist
Tragically the same cannot be said for pedestrians:
Pedestrian deaths should be wake-up call for Portland leaders: Guest opinion | OregonLive.com
Portland made it through 2013 with zero bike fatalities | Grist
Tragically the same cannot be said for pedestrians:
Pedestrian deaths should be wake-up call for Portland leaders: Guest opinion | OregonLive.com