closetbiker

maybe they feel the lock and chain provides protection worth the money but they feel the helmet does not?

Zeuser

Closetbiker is essentially confirming reddo's statement; people are more interested in saving their bikes than their lives. Or to put it into Closetbiker's terms: people think their bikes are more valuable than their lives.

closetbiker

maybe people think it's more likely in reddo's neighborhood people are going to get a head injury from assault than falling from a bike.

reddo

I suspect that this type of behaviour is partially a function of youth i.e. a relative sense of invincibility and relative independence from emotional and financial dependents.

Six jours

He said, while quoting a 15 year old.

reddo

He said, while copping out and making it personal

Six jours

New here, eh?

Anyway, I'm just following your lead.

makeinu

I can attest to the fact that a bicycle helmet is a great way to protect yourself during an assault.

uke

+1. I just read someone else mention this in their prior uses for a helmet in a different thread.

mikesdca

I think it`s simply a question of where people choose to draw the line regarding risk. Yes, there is a chance that a helmet will help you in a crash. Yes, there is a chance that collarbone braces will help you in a crash (Motocross racers use them as part of their race gear). Yes, there is a chance that wearing glasses will help protect your eyes in cases of road debris being kicked up by passing vehicles. The list is as long as there are parts of the body to be protected. There really is NO argument against safety. No one, I believe, can make a reasonable argument against trying to protect oneself against broken bones or eye injury or head injury.

100% of all cyclists killed last year wouldn`t have been killed if they`d not been riding their bikes in the first place. What kind of stupid argument is that? It`s what you`re left with when you take the examples I used in the above paragraph regarding safety gear and extend them to their logical (**********?) conslusion: minimize all risk, don`t do anything in life more dangerous than that required to run your body`s Krebs cycle.

At some point, all of us say `yep, my life is better for doing X. I`m willing to accept the risks.` Try something for me, would you? Pick a piece of safety equipment you COULD use, but choose not to. Now justify your reasons for not using this safety equipment. Do it without falling back into, `well, all sports are dangerous and I`m doing all I can to minimize the risks`, because the truth is NO ONE is doing all they can to minimize the risks. They might say the are, but in reality they`re simply taking precautions up to that point at which the feel safe.

Zeuser

Here's a statistic: 100% of the BMX faceplants on youtube were not wearing helmets.

/captain obvious

mikesdca

And your point is what? That 100% of the guys who faceplanted rolled around in pain for awhile then got up and road home? Fair enough.

twiggy_D

Ahem, Zeuser, https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TAvC1MZAR4s

The guy is wearing a helmet and faceplants quite dramatically.
You where saying something about 100% ??

hnsq

I agree to an extent, but your head is a pretty important part of your body (moreso than your collarbone, for example). Other than not fitting into a certain city subculture for appearance's sake, I don't see the downside to wearing a helmet.

closetbiker

again, there isn't too much of a downside but, you tap into why so many think it's important to wear one. It's what's inside of the bone of the skull that's more important to protect that isn't present elsewhere where we don't cover up and would tolerate damage.

A helmet hasn't shown that it can prevent brain damage and many believe it can. TRT claimed it can by 88% by showing a group of cyclists with helmets on that had less brain damage than 1 group without helmets on. Thing was (and is not widely known) is that the group with helmets on had simple falls with little forward speed and the unhelmeted group were riding faster and fell far more violently, often hit by cars. The assumption was it was the helmets that made the difference and not the impacts. It's also of little surprise that an author of the study was already a helmet promotor before writing the study, the study was finaced through an agreement between the Snell Foundation and Bell Sports and Bell Sports fund helmet law lobby groups that use this study as their prime resource to justify helmet laws.

Even when people fall from their bikes and receive a concussion (itself a low-level brain injury) people are even more convinced their helmet did protect from brain injury. When the brain injury to a helmeted cyclists is undeniable, there seems to be a blind eye turned. Few realistically assess the rate of brain injury to helmeted cyclists as they do to cyclists who die with helmets on.

Rotational, torsional and diffuse brain injury is what we all want to prevent and sadly, the helmet does not make an impact in preventing these injuries.

hnsq

So are you saying the social aspect - fitting in with a certain culture that you see not wearing helmets has nothing to do with the decisions of people to not wear them?

From my experience, most people who do not wear helmets do so because of pressure to fit a norm of the cycling culture to which they belong, and they go to great lengths to justify the behavior when it is really nothing more than an insecurity of being looked down upon by others with which they ride and associate.

Zeuser

ok seriously, go buy a sense of humor.

Six jours

Actually, I see this as a primary reason why people do wear helmets -- and why they're so comfortable belligerently insisting that everyone else does too.

And I am sure that there are at least some people who are not wearing helmets because they are sick of the high school peer pressure mentality so pervasive to the discussion.

Speaking personally, I do not fit into the local cycling crowd when I take off my helmet. In fact, the two local clubs with which I ride both require them. When I am by myself, I usually wear a hat instead of a helmet because the hat is more utilitarian and comfortable than the helmet and I honestly do not feel that the helmet offers substantial protection.

adriel

I actually believe quite the opposite, the only reason most helmeted riders wear them is peer pressure, and not because of safety at all. And they wrap up all these justifications to prove that not only is it a valid risk/reward scenario for them, but that everyone should have to do it. (Because when they see a helmetless rider, jealousy kicks in, and is quickly replaced with indignation).

hnsq

It seems there might be members in both classes which conform to peer pressure. Personally I don't like the looks of a helmet, and feel some pressure to not wear one, but for safety's sake I wear it anyway. I think many helmetless riders see someone wearing a helmet, pride kicks in because they are 'smarter' and not as conformist as those with helmets. A large portion of those without helmets try very hard to fit into the scofflaw/hipster crowd where helmets are just not something you wear. I have yet to talk to someone who doesn't wear a helmet and doesn't feel some sort of pride about being smarter and less conformist than people who regularly wear one.


I see it very similar to the vegan/vegetarians claiming to follow that lifestyle for reasons of animal cruelty. (any idea how many small animals are killed in modern day farming?)

closetbiker

not at all, I'm not sure how you got that from my post.

what I said was the ability of a bicycle helmet to prevent brain injury is very much in question.

promoters often say they do, but there is little evidence of the claim.

mikesdca

hnsg, Putting aside the main issue for a moment (why we or do or do not wear helmets), can you tell me why helmet wearing riders care one way or the other? Actually, I won`t ask you to speak for a group, but only for yourself. What would be the real benefit to cycling if non-helmet wearing riders decided as a group to immediately begin wearing helmets?

adriel

I do not feel pride about being smarter and less conformist when I do not wear my helmet, I feel more comfortable, and I feel cooler in the sense that my head is not as hot. (I frequently ride in 100+ degree days)

I ride on mixed rides where some people wear helmets and some do not, and nobody criticizes anyone. I am quite content until someone makes a comment like "You don't wear a helmet? What an idiot. I will have no sympathy for you when you die." (usually I get that online, I have never heard it in person, people tend to be more civil in person). Then I get defensive, and it may come across as pride.

I think you just need to get out more, and meet more people.

Zeuser

So wrong!

I wear it because of this simple logic: Head + helmet has a better chance of working than bare head.

There's just no way anyone can claim that not wearing a helmet will protect you more than wearing one.

justflow1983

I don't wear a helmet 80% of the time, and it is out of sheer laziness. It has nothing to do with feeling cool, or better, or a "scofflaw" (people use that word?). If I go to the movies or meet some friends at a bar to watch football, I don't want to hang around all night with my helmet and I don't feel like keeping track of it. Everybody cycles here, theres no "culture" i'm trying to fit into. My 50 year old secretary cycles to work and she doesn't wear a helmet either.

If I'm going on a 80k ride on a Sunday afternoon, I wear a helmet because I don't have to thnk about putting it anywhere. Its usually whenever I have clipless shoes on I have a helmet too. Part of the kit. I do feel safer with it on, but like I said, hanging on to it is a pain in the ass.

A friend of mine used to lock theirs to their bike. It got peed on, so I don't feel like doing the same.