Define: "BICYCLIST" or let's at least get clear on the concept!
BICYCLIST: ??
For me it's simple: A "bicyclist" is a person riding a bicycle. When I advocate for cycling I advocate for "people who ride bicycles" NOT for any exclusive subset, who may deem themselves representative of the "true bicyclists". How do you define, "bicyclist"? And when we advocate, who/what are we advocating for? |
bicyclist - a person who rides a bicycle
bicycle 1. A vehicle consisting of a light frame mounted on two wire-spoked wheels one behind the other and having a seat, handlebars for steering, brakes, and two pedals or a small motor by which it is driven. 2. An exercise bicycle. |
Exactly the same way you do - a person riding a bicycle (I would expand this to tricycles as well, pretty much as long as it's pedal powered. Ive never seen a quadricycle in use). I rather dislike the idea that someone who rides an inexpensive cycle is "less" of a bicyclist than someone on a $4000 carbon road bike while wearing another $1000 in clothing. This really stems from my experiences in the car enthusiast realm - I don't like my enthusiasm called into question because I don't drive an expensive exotic sports car but rather an inexpensive, fairly common one. Sadly, this is a really common thing in the car world.
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I'm good with expanding a bit further. Folks on scooters, which lack pedals and seats, and those eliptical things are pretty much doing the same thing that people on bikes are doing. I think CA changed the definition of bicycle recently to include things without seats. I'd include skate boarders too, but too many of them are just too erratic for my liking.:D
And when you're using a car, you're a motorist no matter how many miles you have ridden your bike at other times. |
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
(Post 17031435)
I'm good with expanding a bit further. Folks on scooters, which lack pedals and seats, and those eliptical things are pretty much doing the same thing that people on bikes are doing. I think CA changed the definition of bicycle recently to include things without seats. I'd include skate boarders too, but too many of them are just too erratic for my liking.:D
And when you're using a car, you're a motorist no matter how many miles you have ridden your bike at other times. That said, my other question is: some "bicyclists" do not "self define" as cyclists, they break laws, they ride while impaired, they don't use lights, they have broken down mechanically unsound bicycles. Are they still "bicyclists"? And even though they may not participate in the "bicycling advocacy community" are they included when we advocate? And, if so, how do we do that? |
Originally Posted by B.Carfree
No, you have missed the point. A drunk/ninja/salmon cyclist is creating a hazard on the road that almost entirely puts the risk on him/her. A drunk motorist puts the risk on everyone on the road. If someone is bent on self-destruction, I'm willing to let them do it. If someone is bent on harming others, then even a callous old grouch like me believes we need to take steps to prevent them from succeeding.**
Many times in these threads there is a great deal of advocacy for "cyclist education". Rather than simply dismissing these individuals as self destructive social cast offs I think there are many efforts that could be made to target these riders. For one, increasing the awareness of people riding bicycles that riding impaired on a bicycle increases risk of injury just like driving drunk. Some people are under the impression that it's somehow easier and safer to balance on two wheels than drive when inebriated (I know its ridiculous but it's true). maybe somehow they think because they are less likely to hurt someone else, or get pulled over by a cop they are somehow safer- bad logic, I know. This has been a concern on the part of bike share programs and I think they have reminders to not use the bikes while inebriated. I like the efforts made by some communities to pass out lights to cyclists during traffic stops with a warning. Unfortunately, the US in particular so infantilizes the idea of cycling as an adult form of transportation that it delegitimizes it and some people think lights, riding with traffic etc is not required. This is an area where enforcement and education helps. But it's not everything, better, safer, well lit infrastructure that, in some cases, separates the bicyclists from motorists serves every rider and the kinds of cyclists you mention need all the help they can get. But they do not, in my opinion, deserve to be written off. |
Bicyclist (N)
A person who operates and rides a two wheeled vehicle powered by their own physical exertions usually using their feet to spin two pedals connected by a chain to the rear wheel of the vehicle. Also known as a cyclist. See Bicycle. A Proper Cyclist (N) A person who uses their bicycle as either their primary or one of their primary mode of transportation. One who engages regularly in the sport of bicycle racing or regularly uses their bicycle in another related sport. Someone who only rides their bikes on trails and or parks is not considered a proper cyclist. Like wise one who only commutes by bike in pleasant weather a few days a week is not a proper cyclist. A proper cyclist can be identified by always keeping all parts of their bicycle in good condition and maintains working lights for riding after dusk. Such a person often has a solid grasp on fixing flats i.e. rudimentary maintenance skills. Likewise this person will always practice basic safety skills as well as good etiquette when riding. See Bicycle commuter. |
Originally Posted by buzzman
(Post 17031499)
That said, my other question is: some "bicyclists" do not "self define" as cyclists, they break laws, they ride while impaired, they don't use lights, they have broken down mechanically unsound bicycles.
then whats the problem? |
Bicyclist - a person who uses a mechanical, non-motorized means of transport.
Proper cyclist - term invented by elitists for their own purposes. Varies depending on purpose. |
Originally Posted by italktocats
(Post 17031629)
do they ride bikes?
then whats the problem? It often seems that advocacy is by, and aimed at improving the cycling experience of enthusiasts and roadies, rather than to make riding a bicycle attractive to the average person. |
bicyclist: operator of a bicycle
cyclist: operator of any human powered vehicle, inclusive of those with electric assist. proper cyclist: asshat. It's a big tent. |
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
(Post 17031435)
And when you're using a car, you're a motorist no matter how many miles you have ridden your bike at other times.
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Originally Posted by walrus1
(Post 17031581)
A Proper Cyclist (N)
A person who uses their bicycle as either their primary or one of their primary mode of transportation. One who engages regularly in the sport of bicycle racing or regularly uses their bicycle in another related sport. Someone who only rides their bikes on trails and or parks is not considered a proper cyclist. Like wise one who only commutes by bike in pleasant weather a few days a week is not a proper cyclist. A proper cyclist can be identified by always keeping all parts of their bicycle in good condition and maintains working lights for riding after dusk. Such a person often has a solid grasp on fixing flats i.e. rudimentary maintenance skills. Likewise this person will always practice basic safety skills as well as good etiquette when riding. See Bicycle commuter. |
Originally Posted by kickstart
(Post 17032197)
It often seems that advocacy is by, and aimed at improving the cycling experience of enthusiasts and roadies, rather than to make riding a bicycle attractive to the average person.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 17032269)
Do you claim credit for making up this baloney-like definition?
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Originally Posted by walrus1
(Post 17032323)
Was that a question or just an insult? Because knowing your posts here I'm inclined to believe the former.
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Depends.
Out in the world, "bicyclist" is anyone on any kind of HPV. In BF, it's someone riding the same kind of bike I do, the same way I do, and if you don't agree with me, you suck and are not a "real bicyclist." I advocate for the former, heap scorn in BF on the latter. |
OK I posted this in the other thread, but I see that THIS is where the question belongs.
I can't help but wonder if people that drive cars consider themselves to be "motorists." |
Originally Posted by genec
(Post 17032693)
OK I posted this in the other thread, but I see that THIS is where the question belongs.
I can't help but wonder if people that drive cars consider themselves to be "motorists." |
Originally Posted by buzzman
(Post 17031022)
BICYCLIST: ??
For me it's simple: A "bicyclist" is a person riding a bicycle. When I advocate for cycling I advocate for "people who ride bicycles" NOT for any exclusive subset, who may deem themselves representative of the "true bicyclists". While anyone riding a bicycle at any time is a bicyclist, those who do it routinely as part of their lives are bicyclists even when sitting at the keyboard. Just as an airplane pilot is still one when on the ground, an explorer, a mariner, or a teacher, anyone who actively pursues a vocation or avocation may be categorized accordingly whether actually doing it at the time or not. I am a cyclist, business owner, sucba diver, husband, etc. until such time and circumstances would call for adding ex- in front of them. |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 17032246)
When you get out of a motor vehicle, or dismount a bicycle you are a pedestrian. How 'bout dat, eh?
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
(Post 17033216)
Not criticizing or disagreeing with your effort to provide an inclusive meaning for bicyclist, but I think you're also narrowing it at the same time.
While anyone riding a bicycle at any time is a bicyclist, those who do it routinely as part of their lives are bicyclists even when sitting at the keyboard. Just as an airplane pilot is still one when on the ground, an explorer, a mariner, or a teacher, anyone who actively pursues a vocation or avocation may be categorized accordingly whether actually doing it at the time or not. I am a cyclist, business owner, sucba diver, husband, etc. until such time and circumstances would call for adding ex- in front of them. https://storybird.s3.amazonaws.com/s...8dxzkce4j.jpeg |
So what's the conclusion? A bicyclist is a person who rides a bike but not necessarily only when riding a bike.
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Originally Posted by Coal Buster
(Post 17033759)
So what's the conclusion? A bicyclist is a person who rides a bike but not necessarily only when riding a bike.
On this point, I agree with him wholeheartedly. We all ride bicycles for different reasons, and if discussing policy, need to be mindful of the needs of all "bicyclists". |
Originally Posted by buzzman
(Post 17031022)
NOT for any exclusive subset, who may deem themselves representative of the "true bicyclists".
People who agree with me: "people who ride bicycles". *Also known as "experienced bicyclists", the "strong and fearless 1%" etc. :rolleyes: |
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