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Old 08-14-14, 02:45 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I keep hearing folks whining about how the police have to crackdown on those making the streets so dangerous; speeding, red light running cars and cabs, kamikaze bicyclists, crazy, jaywalking pedestrians who don't bother looking. And yet, eny enforcement against one's favored (we're so innocent) group is a nazi crackdown.
*red light running cars and cabs
*kamikaze bicyclists
*jaywalking pedestrians


Which of these things are not like the others?
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Old 08-14-14, 02:49 PM   #27
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but they are probably the most economical and least intrusive way to maintain some semblance of order
These exercises are pure political theater. As FBinNY mentioned, enforcement of bike scofflaw misbehavior in NYC is pretty much non-existent. I personally would like to see bike scofflaw behavior become effectively decriminalized (as in the netherlands) so that these types of cynical exercises no longer waste limited resources.
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Old 08-14-14, 03:06 PM   #28
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*red light running cars and cabs
*kamikaze bicyclists
*jaywalking pedestrians


Which of these things are not like the others?
They're all different, but in at least one respect, very similar.

Members of each group feel that the problem lies with the other two.
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Old 08-14-14, 03:43 PM   #29
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The problem is in NYC they just don't target law breaking cyclists they randomly target every cyclist regardless whether or not they broke any actually law. In the past they have ticked cyclists for not wearing helmets, not riding in the bike lane that they blocked with a cruiser, going through yellow lights and having a small purse dangling from the handle bars. Heck, I once read about a guy who got a ticket for walking his bike on the sidewalk into his office. So yeah I have an issue with this crackdown as should every other reasonable person. Especially when pedestrians are hit by cars that regularly kill or severely injure them and those cars get away scott free.

If the cops just targeted salmons, cyclists who carelessly blow red lights, ride on sidewalks, turn into pedestrians, don't have lights, have two earbuds in or text while cycling I'd be cool with it. To be honest such a legal crackdown might do some good in curbing some of the stupidity I've been seeing a lot more of lately. However the current NYPD will never give us such a crackdown.
I did an organized century ride last year where the local cops (San Diego County Sheriffs) who had been put on extra patrols to "ensure the safety of the riders" used it as an excuse for a zero tolerance crackdown on the sorts of "infractions" that the most legally clueless cager would cite. One of their favorites was ticketing cyclists leaving the bike lane to pass slower cyclists (legal, when safe, per the CVC)

Me hates dem salmon.
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Old 08-14-14, 03:55 PM   #30
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Members of each group feel that the problem lies with the other two.
Letting "feelings" dictate law enforcement is never wise...
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Old 08-14-14, 04:31 PM   #31
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*red light running cars and cabs
*kamikaze bicyclists
*jaywalking pedestrians


Which of these things are not like the others?
Fixed it for ya!
*red light running cars and cabs
*kamikaze bicyclists
*Jaywalkers walking into traffic against the light staring at their phone.

The answer is obvious Kamikaze bicyclists. I've yet to meet a suicidal cyclist attempting to takeout a carrier or another large military naval vessel.

Seriously though cycle midtown around lunch hour. It's amazing more jaywalkers don't get hit. They should be stopped since they'll result in the injury of others mostly the cyclist who hits. them. Oh and they're everywhere!
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Old 08-14-14, 05:22 PM   #32
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Once "the blitz" is started, it always gets pushed into the extreme by most departments. They start to make infractions up as an excuse to write a ticket. Experienced it at a local SoCal intersection (so the issue is not just in NYC) when I was pulled over for "impeding traffic"...problem? I was not.

At a busy intersection with a right hand turn, I stopped at the red light. In order to not impede the traffic making the right hand turn on the red, I moved over in to the lane. No big deal as cars and bikes alike were at the red light for proceeding straight ahead. Light turns green and off I go, making my way back into the bike lane diligently. Low and behold...100 yards later I have a siren and lights behind me. I am told I have broken the law...what law?

Impeding traffic.
At a red light?
You were in the traffic lane.
Yes, I was...so as not to impede traffic legally turning right.
You belong in the bike lane.
Even if I am impeding traffic?
Yes.
So by being safe and courteous, I have broken the law?
Yes.
Which law please, specific code...not a general guess. What law states that bicycles cannot occupy a lane of travel.
Listen, I will let you off with a warning this time.

In other words, no law broken that would have held a conviction so have a nice day. This is because there is a blitz going on here in SoCal relating to bicycle safety and enforcement. It has nothing really to do with the safety aspect, mostly just for the revenue from the enforcement. I suspect that is the same as NYC's current enforcement drive. They target every rider as though we are all scofflaws. When did we allow for this behavior from our police?
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Old 08-14-14, 09:05 PM   #33
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These exercises are pure political theater. As FBinNY mentioned, enforcement of bike scofflaw misbehavior in NYC is pretty much non-existent. I personally would like to see bike scofflaw behavior become effectively decriminalized (as in the netherlands) so that these types of cynical exercises no longer waste limited resources.


Political posturing that does nothing, an egregious attack on civil rights, all about the money.

I'll bet you can find the same contradicting complaints on all special interest enthusiast forums of every user group when its their turn to be held accountable for their actions.

When there are that many people in close proximity to one another, conflict and competition over space is inevitable. Occasional reminders that we share the world with others seems better than a police state that controls everyone with an iron fist, or jungle law where its survival of the fittest.
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Old 08-14-14, 09:49 PM   #34
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Do you happen to be colored mate? I fear if you were you might just be six feet under right now
Colored? Really genius? Go back under your bridge.
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Old 08-14-14, 09:58 PM   #35
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You are so right! How did I not see it! The cops since they've been breaking the law for so so long we should just let them! It's so immature of me to expect the cops to follow the law! Thank you so much for pointing this out! I love it that someone upstate is so right about how NYC is and should be! Thanks!
Generally, emergency vehicles are exempt from parking regs. So in the city, this would include NYPD, FDNY, DOC, Courts, TBTA, Sheriffs and so on.
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Old 08-14-14, 11:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
*red light running cars and cabs
*kamikaze bicyclists
*jaywalking pedestrians

which of these things are not like the others?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbinny View Post
they're all different, but in at least one respect, very similar.

Members of each group feel that the problem lies with the other two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walrus1 View Post
...
Seriously though cycle midtown around lunch hour. It's amazing more jaywalkers don't get hit. They should be stopped since they'll result in the injury of others mostly the cyclist who hits. Them. Oh and they're everywhere!
and there we have it ---- Q.E.D.
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Old 08-15-14, 07:19 AM   #37
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Its your money the b'crats want!!!!!
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Old 08-15-14, 08:08 AM   #38
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NYPD did a month long bicycling crackdown in the Spring, and only generated 38 tickets, but a week prior to the bicycle crackdown, NYPD did just a 2 DAY crackdown on motorists, and handed out 4000 tickets. Goes to show who really is the danger on the streets.


Bicycle Scofflaw Crackdown Comes to Upper West Side - NY1
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Old 08-15-14, 09:10 AM   #39
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NYPD did a month long bicycling crackdown in the Spring, and only generated 38 tickets, but a week prior to the bicycle crackdown, NYPD did just a 2 DAY crackdown on motorists, and handed out 4000 tickets. Goes to show who really is the danger on the streets.

Bicycle Scofflaw Crackdown Comes to Upper West Side - NY1
Whenever there are sobriety checkpoints in my area, there's always hundreds, up to over a thousand vehicles stopped, a handful of arrests for non-DUI related offenses, and single digit drunk drivers caught.

Less about results of enforcement and actual tickets issued, more about using the announcement of such crackdowns to modify sub-group behavior.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:01 AM   #40
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Its your money the b'crats want!!!!!
And its for the public services we want.
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Old 08-15-14, 10:12 AM   #41
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NYPD did a month long bicycling crackdown in the Spring, and only generated 38 tickets, but a week prior to the bicycle crackdown, NYPD did just a 2 DAY crackdown on motorists, and handed out 4000 tickets. Goes to show who really is the danger on the streets.
So whats the ratio of motorists to cyclists in NYC?
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Old 08-15-14, 10:20 AM   #42
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Its your money the b'crats want!!!!!
The money collected is nothing compared to the cost of these crackdowns, and a large number of the tickets are dismissed before the trial date.

I know that you think NYC has a corrupt government that only want's people's money, and there may be a small element of truth there. But let's think "logically" about this for a minute. If it was about collecting money, would they announce these crackdowns, with plenty of local medial coverage? Would they announce the areas and specific violations they were focused on? These announcements clearly show that they're trying to leverage PR about a crackdown to change behavior (at least temporarily) rather than actually collecting fines.

If it were about money, there wouldn't be crackdowns because they could pick just about any location and write large numbers of tickets every day, or simply instruct officers to assign a higher priority to bicycle violations as part of their general assignments.

People both in and far from NYC may rant about this crackdown as being anti bike, but it's simply an effort to keep a lid on things in a city that is very laissez faire as it relates to bicycles.
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Old 08-15-14, 11:17 AM   #43
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Everyone wants the traffic laws enforced,,,,,,On the other guy.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:28 PM   #44
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Generally, emergency vehicles are exempt from parking regs. So in the city, this would include NYPD, FDNY, DOC, Courts, TBTA, Sheriffs and so on.
Only when responding to emergencies. Yes they don't have to feed the meter but most departments have strict polices against double parking and/or blocking traffic to get pizza or have a chat.
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Old 08-15-14, 01:43 PM   #45
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Only when responding to emergencies. Yes they don't have to feed the meter but most departments have strict polices against double parking and/or blocking traffic to get pizza or have a chat.
You show me a LE/first responder agency that has a policy against parking in bike lanes, fire lanes, reserved parking for Drs/partners spaces or whatever and I will be surprised. Show me one that is enforced and I'll be shocked. Plus policies and procedures are not laws, and the laws exempt emergency vehicles.
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Old 08-15-14, 01:55 PM   #46
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Only when responding to emergencies. Yes they don't have to feed the meter but most departments have strict polices against double parking and/or blocking traffic to get pizza or have a chat.
They may have policies, but most aren't like you think. Police and other emergency personnel take meal and other breaks out in the field. Because it's preferred that are available if/when called, they need to stay close to their cars. Parking in NYC is scarce, so it's not like there are empty spaces all over. Given a choice between losing time looking and ending up parking 2 blocks from a donut shop, they do the best they can under the circumstances. This might mean double parking, or blocking a bike lane or fire hydrant, or even across a driveway.

These are the realities of life in NYC, where situational adjustment trumps theoretical "policy".
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Old 08-15-14, 02:52 PM   #47
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My original post was quite rude. For that I apologize. However reality is often inconvenient. The NYPD doesn't have the legal right to supersede the law cause it's inconvenient.

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Old 08-15-14, 02:55 PM   #48
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You show me a LE/first responder agency that has a policy against parking in bike lanes, fire lanes, reserved parking for Drs/partners spaces or whatever and I will be surprised. Show me one that is enforced and I'll be shocked. Plus policies and procedures are not laws, and the laws exempt emergency vehicles.
Those who enforce the law are themselves supposed to follow it. This is the corner stone of a democracy. The NYPD is allowed to double park in emerganicies and in fulfilment of their official duties. Want know more google it.
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Old 08-15-14, 03:23 PM   #49
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Wait a second FBinNY. You don't actually live in NYC. So its amazing how you know everything about it living up sate and all.
I was stationed at Governors Island, does that count? Seems to me FBinNY has a pretty good grip on reality.
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Old 08-15-14, 03:59 PM   #50
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My original post was quite rude. For that I apologize. However reality is often inconvenient. The NYPD doesn't have the legal right to supersede the law cause it's inconvenient.
I didn't find it especially rude, so no need to edit it out and apologize. Maybe the reason I'm not offended is that I grew up in NYC and lived in Greenwich Village in the sixties, and Chelsea in the eighties, with a stint in the Bronx in between, and still live close enough that I spend a fair amount of time riding my bike there.

I feel that 49+ years riding in NYC, and being active in the bike community, and the advocacy that got or kept us bridge access and the rail access we enjoy on Metro North and LIRR, gives me adequate street cred that i can post as a NYer, though I now live 7 miles north of the city line. The NYC credit also gives me skin thick enough that you're "rudeness" is of no consequence.

FWIW- I personally feel that NYC has always been bike friendly, and if anything had been more friendly before the current wave of bike popularity and the new breed of cyclists and advocates who don't understand how to work with a shared resource. But my opinion on that score is beside the point, we have to live and work with what is in place now, which for my part means identifying and avoiding all avenues with segregated bike lanes so I don't risk a fine under a must use rule.

BTW- I always did, and still treat red lights like stop or yield signs and filter through when it's safe to do so. I've done this routinely in front of police units, and not once has one raised an objection. Of course, during the crackdown weeks, I'll be a bit more discrete.
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