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  1. #26
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    That road during rush hour is legal to drive in that break down lane. People drive very fast there and the traffic is heavy. 50 mph in that lane and just barely wide enough for a car. Even if the main traffic lanes are almost stopped.

    The road is a dangerous even in a car. Wrong place for a bicycle. I find it hard to believe he can ride there more than a few times without getting hit. That is the part that is stupid.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #27
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    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Is it really the crux? Prohibited doesn't necessarily mean stupid and unreasonably dangerous. I know that it seems so to our common sense, but if we're to use "common sense" what if we put some numbers to it based on common sense assumptions?

    I don't know I-93 South in Boston....
    Full stop. Not that lack of knowledge ever stops anyone from offering their NSHO.

    -mr. bill
    Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts.

  4. #29
    Senior Member bluegoatwoods's Avatar
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    I'm still a bit unclear. Are we talking about an interstate highway where, like all the rest, pedestrians, bicycles, farm eqpt and such are not allowed? If so, then the OP was not incorrect in pointing out this bicyclist and calling him a fool. Or something like that.

    If this is some stretch of interstate highway where bicycles are allowed (?), then the OP is wrong for criticising the bicyclist.

    The OP also criticised the bicyclist's choice of clothing. He probably meant no harm, but it's a silly waste of everyone's time. We've all pondered what clothing works best for us, experimented with some and made our choices. We're grownups and we don't have to answer to each other for this.

  5. #30
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Is it really the crux?
    Yes it is. Cycling is prohibited on the highway; all entry ramps have signs saying so. Dangerous, for sure, but if guy is trying to get to work, he likely didn't make it as some motorist probably phoned the state police who soon escorted him off the highway and issued a citation/hefty fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegoatwoods View Post
    I'm still a bit unclear. Are we talking about an interstate highway where, like all the rest, pedestrians, bicycles, farm eqpt and such are not allowed?
    Yes, we are talking about an interstate highway, so posted. Also, no horses, mopeds, or scooters. It is the main artery between Boston and those suburbs of Boston which happen to be in NH.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  6. #31
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    Full stop. Not that lack of knowledge ever stops anyone from offering their NSHO.

    -mr. bill
    Yet merely being on limited access highway makes it stupidly dangerous? So, your standard requiring full and complete knowledge of all particulars, what is the frequency of accidents on this road? What are his chances?

  7. #32
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    Yes it is. Cycling is prohibited on the highway; all entry ramps have signs saying so. Dangerous, for sure, but if guy is trying to get to work, he likely didn't make it as some motorist probably phoned the state police who soon escorted him off the highway and issued a citation/hefty fine.



    Yes, we are talking about an interstate highway, so posted. Also, no horses, mopeds, or scooters. It is the main artery between Boston and those suburbs of Boston which happen to be in NH.
    I did not suggest that cycling wasn't prohibited. I question whether the fact that it's restricted access makes it automatically too dangerous for a rational cyclist.

    The example I provided suggests that it's not reason in and of itself to call it stupidly dangerous. What is different about I-93 in Boston that makes it so there?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I did not suggest that cycling wasn't prohibited. I question whether the fact that it's restricted access makes it automatically too dangerous for a rational cyclist.

    The example I provided suggests that it's not reason in and of itself to call it stupidly dangerous. What is different about I-93 in Boston that makes it so there?
    It's clearly not too dangerous for you.

    -mr. bill
    Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts.

  9. #34
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I did not suggest that cycling wasn't prohibited. I question whether the fact that it's restricted access makes it automatically too dangerous for a rational cyclist.

    The example I provided suggests that it's not reason in and of itself to call it stupidly dangerous. What is different about I-93 in Boston that makes it so there?
    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Is there traffic in the break-down lane?
    Quote Originally Posted by sm1960 View Post
    This is a major highway so busy during morning and evening rush hour the breakdown lanes are used as travel lanes.
    It is posted clearly at every on-ramp "No bicycles." Drivers are not expecting a cyclist on that road. The shoulders are atrocious with debris. And: Boston/MA drivers.

    Unsure if this will come through, but here's the I-95/I-93 interchange: https://goo.gl/maps/XmuTI

    See that upper left of the cloverleaf? That's people entering the southbound lane of 93 off 95. See the lower left of the cloverleaf? That's people exiting 93s onto 95.

    Same thing here: https://goo.gl/maps/Ci1tM

    A long merge with people coming from and to Rt 16.

    Now, I don't know where OP sighted this guy, but rider was a stupid moron for being on this particular road. Not just because it is illegal but because, yes, it is an extremely dangerous road.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  10. #35
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    It's clearly not too dangerous for you.

    -mr. bill
    I said that GA 400 was too dangerous. Why is I-93 less dangerous than GA 400? Is this one of those "full stop" situations where someone expresses his NSHO in ignorance?

  11. #36
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    ...
    See that upper left of the cloverleaf? That's people entering the southbound lane of 93 off 95. See the lower left of the cloverleaf? That's people exiting 93s onto 95.
    ... , but rider was a stupid moron for being on this particular road. Not just because it is illegal but because, yes, it is an extremely dangerous road.
    Is that where the cyclist was spotted, approaching the cloverleaf? Or is the road such that the cloverleaf cannot be avoided? When traffic is that heavy that people use the travel lane (illegally?) what is their speed in those lanes?

    I drive on lots of roads where drivers don't expect cyclists. Some of them have some debris on the shoulders. And, Atlanta GA drivers. I don't believe that these facts by themselves makes driving there stupidly dangerous.

    Let me be clear here since you and the other guy seem to be making arguments about something I haven't suggested. I'm not saying that the guy was perfectly ok riding where he was. I AM saying that the simple fact that he's on a restricted access road does not by itself make it stupidly dangerous, and all of us jumping on the bandwagon without knowing specific facts are necessarily judging from predisposed opinions.

  12. #37
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    Is that where the cyclist was spotted, approaching the cloverleaf? Or is the road such that the cloverleaf cannot be avoided? When traffic is that heavy that people use the travel lane (illegally?) what is their speed in those lanes?

    I drive on lots of roads where drivers don't expect cyclists. Some of them have some debris on the shoulders. And, Atlanta GA drivers. I don't believe that these facts by themselves makes driving there stupidly dangerous.

    Let me be clear here since you and the other guy seem to be making arguments about something I haven't suggested. I'm not saying that the guy was perfectly ok riding where he was. I AM saying that the simple fact that he's on a restricted access road does not by itself make it stupidly dangerous, and all of us jumping on the bandwagon without knowing specific facts are necessarily judging from predisposed opinions.
    I specifically stated I did not know where the cyclist was sighted.

    Yes, motorists are legally able to use the breakdown lane as a travel lane during the time period OP spotted cyclist on the road. People travel in the beakdown lanes as fast as they can. Some mornings, that's stop and go, other mornings, it's 70+. There are incredibly dangerous high speed interchanges all along that road.

    There's certainly a difference between roads where cyclists are not expected, and roads where they are not expected because cycling is specifically prohibited.

    And you seem to be discounting the personal experience of three cyclists with first hand knowledge of the road in question. There is no part of that road anywhere in the Greater Boston area which in any way one could conceive of it as safe to ride during rush hour.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  13. #38
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    Thank you so much.

  14. #39
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    you seem to be discounting the personal experience of three cyclists with first hand knowledge of the road in question. There is no part of that road anywhere in the Greater Boston area which in any way one could conceive of it as safe to ride during rush hour.
    I'd love to hear first hand from the person who did cycle on i-93 in Boston- the construction worker. If anyone else has first hand experience cycling there, please speak up.

    People are jumping to a lot of conclusions. Nobody here knows why he actually was on that road, nor where he was going. For all you know, his car broke down a mile back, it was too dangerous to stay, he had a bike in back and had to be somewhere. Maybe this guy in the boots is an ex-pro, or maybe he's done so many cycle tours that I-93 is a piece of cake. Maybe he woke up drunk and went out on a whim. You don't know. I wish we could hear his story, because the relevant real personal experience is exactly what is lacking in this discussion.

    I can say one thing confidently: it's not true that "There is no part of that road anywhere in the Greater Boston area which in any way one could conceive of it as safe to ride during rush hour." One person, in all likelihood did believe it was safe enough to ride on one section of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    I specifically stated I did not know where the cyclist was sighted.
    Then all that bit about the cloverleaf was for what purpose?


    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    There's certainly a difference between roads where cyclists are not expected, and roads where they are not expected because cycling is specifically prohibited.
    Then why did you make a big deal about cyclists not being expected there?

  15. #40
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    I've bicycled on I-93 in Boston. What would you like to know?

    -mr. bill

    (Clarifying, yes, bicycle.)
    Last edited by mr_bill; 08-19-14 at 09:39 AM.
    Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts.

  16. #41
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    I've cycled on I-93 in Boston. What would you like to know?

    -mr. bill
    What were your impressions of the ride?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    What were your impressions of the ride?
    The views could be better.

    -mr. bill
    Don't blame me, I'm from Massachusetts.

  18. #43
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I'd love to hear first hand from the person who did cycle on i-93 in Boston- the construction worker. If anyone else has first hand experience cycling there, please speak up.

    People are jumping to a lot of conclusions. Nobody here knows why he actually was on that road, nor where he was going. For all you know, his car broke down a mile back, it was too dangerous to stay, he had a bike in back and had to be somewhere. Maybe this guy in the boots is an ex-pro, or maybe he's done so many cycle tours that I-93 is a piece of cake. Maybe he woke up drunk and went out on a whim. You don't know. I wish we could hear his story, because the relevant real personal experience is exactly what is lacking in this discussion.

    I can say one thing confidently: it's not true that "There is no part of that road anywhere in the Greater Boston area which in any way one could conceive of it as safe to ride during rush hour." One person, in all likelihood did believe it was safe enough to ride on one section of it.



    Then all that bit about the cloverleaf was for what purpose?




    Then why did you make a big deal about cyclists not being expected there?
    The bit about the cloverleaf and, further, the rt 16 interchange was to point out some of the more dangerous points along that particular road.

    I didn't make a big deal about cyclists not being expected there -- it's just one of the reasons riding that road is incredibly unsafe.

    Have you driven I-93s from north of Boston during rush hour?

    Regardless, do you think it is safe to ride anywhere from I-95, south on that interstate...?
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  19. #44
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    I've cycled on I-93 in Boston. What would you like to know?

    -mr. bill
    Wait, you seriously rode a bicycle through the Big Dig tunnel...? Did you think it was safe?
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  20. #45
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    The bit about the cloverleaf and, further, the rt 16 interchange was to point out some of the more dangerous points along that particular road.

    I didn't make a big deal about cyclists not being expected there -- it's just one of the reasons riding that road is incredibly unsafe.

    Have you driven I-93s from north of Boston during rush hour?

    Regardless, do you think it is safe to ride anywhere from I-95, south on that interstate...?
    I think that you shouldn't make snap judgments about someone who does ride there, just because you don't think it's safe.

  21. #46
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I think that you shouldn't make snap judgments about someone who does ride there, just because you don't think it's safe.
    That's not what I asked.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  22. #47
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
    The views could be better.

    -mr. bill
    Then I apologize for the "full stop" crack. How much more dangerous was it than other routes on busy, high-speed roads?

  23. #48
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    That's not what I asked.
    I know, but it's more relevant in my opinion, getting to the crux of the matter.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
    I think that you shouldn't make snap judgments about someone who does ride there, just because you don't think it's safe.
    What are you even arguing about? Do you know anymore?

    He never said anything about the man on the bike or what his intentions were, just that the road is unsafe to ride on and it is. Lots of things are unsafe and people do them anyway.

  25. #50
    rugged individualist wphamilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey. View Post
    What are you even arguing about? Do you know anymore?

    He never said anything about the man on the bike or what his intentions were, just that the road is unsafe to ride on and it is. Lots of things are unsafe and people do them anyway.
    I disagreed with the theme that the cyclist is "foolhardy" and "completely lacking in common sense", and that it's "stupid" because "it's the wrong place for a bicycle". After being jumped on for expressing that opinion, and suggesting that it may not be as dangerous as snap judgments would have it, this is all derivative.

    I don't think that there's been any creep in my position or arguments.

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