Todzilla

I know most folks on this forum are strongly in favor of following all traffic laws, but does anyone here wait at a red light when the intersection is empty and there are no cars in your lane to trigger the sensor?

I for one won't stick around. If the intersection is clear and there are no cars coming to trigger the sensor, I'm gone.

KBentley57

All traffic lights, signs, and bumps serve one purpose; to keep traffic flowing safely. If it is red, and very clear, treat it as a stop sign and go on.

spivonious

My bike triggers the sensors on all but one of the lights that my commute takes me through (and that one always gets a car to trigger it before a light cycle has completed), so yes I wait at every one. If a car wouldn't come, the law says I can treat it as a stop sign if I wait one light cycle. I've only had to do that once.

dynodonn 

If the light is a known "dead red" and no other motor vehicles are around to trip the sensor, I too will treat the signal light as a stop sign, but I'm not waiting for it to cycle even once, a waste of time in doing so.

Earl Grey

Like Spivonious, in my state I can legally proceed, although I have to wait for at least two minutes first. There are quite a few around me that won't trigger for a bike, but most of them have adjacent pedestrian crossings.

mconlonx

There are two particular lights on my regular commute where I treat a red as a stop sign. One, a sensor light, is out of a parking lot where very few people turn left, so I'd wait forever for another car to come up and trip the light. I go when the coast is clear, across a very busy road just down from a major highway interchange. The other light is on the same road coming the other way. During rush hour traffic, I'd get caught up in a dangerous mess of cars on a road with no shoulder and right-turners who routinely do not use turn signals. Right lane is right turn only, left lane is right or left turn. I will filter up to the front between the two lanes and as soon as traffic clears from across the street, will turn left on a red light to beat traffic to a broad shoulder. This is absolutely the safest way to navigate this particular intersection, based on lots of experience.

For all other lights on my commute, either they are well traveled enough that I am in traffic, or the lights are timed, not sensor and I will queue up and wait for the light to change.

achoo

If your presence ain't gonna trip the light, might as well go.

What else are you going to do? OK, you could wait the legally-required time if that's part of your state's laws, but that's really pointless. And if it's not part of your state's laws? Wait forever for a car? Seems stupid to me.

ItsJustMe

I have no lights on my commute that won't detect my bikes.

Here's the standard document on making lights detect your bike:

Detection of Bicycles at Demand-Actuated Traffic Signals

That said, if they won't trigger, you're generally allowed to go ahead if the light is clearly defective (not detecting your vehicle) and the way is clear.

Also, report the light as defective, ask the DOT to re-adjust the sensors to detect all vehicles it's supposed to.

JoeyBike

I have no idea if any traffic signals in my city even have sensors. I treat all traffic signals the same be it green or red. If the coast is clear, I go.

Looigi

We have the video detectors on some of the new lights around here and they have worked great so far. There can be vehicles on lanes on either side of me (or none whatsoever) and they still detect me and give the appropriate light signal (right, left, straight...). I imagine these will become common in the future as there's no installing and maintaining wires in the road surface or their interfering with road work and maintanance. Remember the big rectangular rubber pressure pads in metal frames that used to be used for automatic lights?

FBinNY 

Since I routinely treat reds as yields, the same rule applies to traffic detector lights.

Mark Stone

El Paso has no stoplights. Horses and Buggies go slow enuff that they dodge each other easily. No "signal tripping" needed, thankyou.

jon c. 

Are they simply detectors or are they tied to red light violation cameras? I'm guessing the video detectors on our red light cameras would pick up a bike. But the sensors for the lights are still in the road. It's a theoretical question for me as I only encounter such an intersection during the day and I've never been the only 'vehicle' in the left turn lanes, so I don't know if they'd detect me alone or not. It's not a light you'd run during the day without a death wish in any case.

elcraft

On a Vespa site, I recall reading about a Neodymium magnet square that you can toss down on the sensor( there is a cord attached to retrieve it). I try and find a link or something.

Looigi

They have face recognition software and relay the information to the NSA...a small price to pay for reliable traffic light operation.

I imagine they could be used for violation detection, though they are a lot smaller and don't have strobes like the violation cameras I'm familiar with. They're also positioned rather high, on top of the arm below which the traffic lights hang. IDK if they have the resolution, relative position, and light sensitivity to work well as a violation camera.

spivonious

They're going to be installing the camera-based sensors on one the main roads in my area. They say that computers will take in all of the lights along a 5 mile stretch of the road and manage traffic smartly. If the main road is really packed, for example, side roads might have to wait longer for a green.

They won't work as red light cameras because PA doesn't have license plates in the front, but I don't see a problem with using such a system to ticket red light runners.

work4bike

These redlight cameras are getting traction around the country, it seems. We have a few now installed around Jacksonville and I expect more to come. And some cities seem to be abusing their power, D.C. is a prime example, surprise, surprise....



D.C.?s war on motorists - The Washington Post


Excerpt:

“D.C. has been executing a war on motorists,” running “a major revenue-making enterprise that is not strictly or even marginally related to safety,” Anderson said. “This has become a gotcha game for greenbacks.”

Anderson said he’s all for punishing people who speed or who run lights, because they are a danger. “But we’ve got these cameras that are ticketing you for going an inch over the stop line, or making a rolling right on red, or unintentionally running a red light by two-tenths, three-tenths of a second. . . . It’s a system run wild.”

mconlonx

So it's OK if cars routinely break the letter of the law in a *nudge,nudge,wink,wink* kind of way, but a cyclist does this and they are scofflaws!

I wonder if this will trigger a push for bike registration -- if a cyclist is caught running a red, how will they track down a cyclist...?

wphamilton

Regarding facial recognition software and traffic cameras.

Just file this away for future reference if you will but I think it's good to know. Infrared LED's really do put up a glare that defeats digital cameras. Mounting one on your visor should be easy, and not at all distracting.

I am not advising people to break the law, but I am opposed to tracking people through traffic systems and other devices, and defeating these devices would be a public service.

dpeters11

In Ohio, legally we're not allowed to proceed at any point if a sensor doesn't get tripped. This would change if they ever pass HB 145 which just requires waiting a "reasonable" time, and adds a three foot passing law.

In Cincinnati, they have been putting marks for where a cyclist should stop to trip the sensor, and have put in one camera based system (not an enforcement camera) at a troublesome intersection as a test.

There's one village here that tried enforcement (speed) cameras. To say it didn't end well for them is an understatement.

Just a doctor

Sit through aa light cycle. If it doesn't read you, look for traffic and proceed when safe

mikeybikes

There are two types of traffic cameras. Ones for enforcement, like you're talking about, and ones that are for triggering the lights to change.

The latter are typically much smaller and are useless for enforcement. Their purpose is to watch for anybody pulling up to the line, and that's it. These work great in the Denver area.

PaulH

Not a problem, because I only ride during rush hour when there are plenty of cars to trip the lights. When it's not rush hour, it's perfectly practical and convenient to drive.

Chris516

I have only proceeded through a red light, once. Because the red light seemed stuck.

Normally, I would wait until the green light.

welshTerrier2

None of the traffic signal actuators in my town is triggered either by one bicycle or by a group of bicycles. I've been told that all actuators have been turned up to the maximum possible sensitivity.

When riding by myself or with my bike club in my town, our policy is to treat red lights the same as stop signs. We are not happy about this but that's the best we can do until the town's equipment is upgraded.

Previous posts in this thread discussed the issue of waiting, or not waiting, for a car to come to our rescue. Even if we were willing to wait, that doesn't always work. We've had situations where we were the first in line at a red light. When the light didn't change, we tried to get the car behind us to move forward hoping it would trigger the actuator. We've had circumstances where the driver refused to move forward because they apparently wanted to maintain a safe distance from the bicycles. So, now we stop ... then we go.

I read an interesting article on this subject: Bicycling - Traffic signal actuators that do not work for bicyclists: technical and legal issues. In the article, John Allen made reference to advice provided by Sheldon Brown where he called for "civil obedience". The idea was to protest these bicycle-insensitive-traffic-signal actuators by sitting at the red light and backing up traffic. If waved through the light by a police officer, your group of protestors would proceed through the light up to the next light and repeat the process. The idea is to protest by obeying the law. I'm not sure I would do this but it's certainly an interesting idea.

Of course, the obvious objection to this civil obedience would be incurring yet more hostility towards cyclists. One wonders, though, whether that's any different than the reaction to cyclists who treat red lights like stop signs and "run the red".

Until cyclists are no longer treated as an afterthought by traffic engineers and other planners, we will be damned if we do and damned if we don't.