Lanovran

There's always a risk of some moron driver killing you any time you go outside. Asserting your rights to the road and riding visibly and predictably will reduce that risk. You're not "impeding traffic." You are traffic, and the right-of-way for vehicle traffic is always first come, first served, regardless of whether the one taking the lane is on a bike, or driving a car, a motorcycle, a bulldozer, a semi, a street sweeper, a farm tractor, a scooter, a horse-drawn carriage, etc. If you're so concerned about your safety on the road, then why on Earth would you be running through red lights and giving cars more potential opportunities to not only T-bone the heck out of you in an intersection, but also get away with it because you were legally in the wrong just to save a few measly minutes?

People often think that I stop at red lights on my bike simply because I'm some sort of law-abiding sheep; however, I stop at red lights primarily because I know that I am a fallible and vulnerable human being who can't possibly beat the odds that even an apparently empty intersection will be safe to clear every single time. There have been too many times in my experience when a car which I hadn't immediately noticed seemed to abruptly materialize nearby, and too quickly to react to it evasively if I'd needed to. When I'm riding on the road, I want to be damned sure that I'm seeing everyone else around me, and that everyone else can see me, with as few surprises as possible.

Mark Stone

↑↑↑ That's true, ain't it!

JoeyBike

WOW! Someone else has picked up the torch on this issue. Sa-weet!

The #1 reason I commute by bike is because I almost never have to stop. Driving a car is downright maddening. Riding a bike is liberating and faster. Parking at both ends is a snap. The #2 reason I ride a bike is because "there is no law" so to speak. Is the Fuzz going to scramble a couple of choppers to follow me to my destination like some old Cops episode? In 40 years of doing whatever I want out there it has never happened. I just follow the Law of the Jungle and try not to cut anyone else off or cause them to touch their brakes.

I don't believe The Law was properly designed with bicycles in mind. I don't think The Law is going to be of much help if I get creamed. So why would I let The Law put me in a more dangerous, inconvenient position/situation without any benefit whatsoever on either end.

"I don't think a judge will buy that" makes me laugh. When they start turning bike messengers into cops, then I will worry about that. New Orleans now allows police to show tattoos from the elbow down, so there is still hope for the messenger thing!

This is my philosophy in a nutshell. I think I might enjoy this thread. Good-on-ya @thrillskr!

This statement is not consistent with 40 years of my own cycling experience. It's a fairy tale.

spare_wheel

yesterday on my way home i avoided the dangerous protected bike lane on the east-bound hawthorne bridge ramp, passed a police vehicle, split lanes to the red, and then jumped the red in full view of the LEO. i've flagrantly violated traffic statutes countless times in front of law enforcement.

spare_wheel

i have a love-hate relationship with car traffic. on the one hand, i am a fanatical green who wants low-occupancy vehicles to be taxed out of existence but on the other hand few things give me more pleasure than high-speed technical weaving in and around motorist congestion.

mikeybikes

I have no qualms riding on 17th and 18th Avenues through that part of town and don't consider it dangerous. I've never felt like I was going to be killed. 19th and 20th Avenues are even calmer with similar light timing. You're right though, 16th Avenue is the calmest despite being the slowest route.

Also, riding on 16th Street is illegal except on Sundays, so I assume you mean 16th Avenue.

What Denver needs, is not necessarily a change in laws, but protected routes that aren't on slow streets like 16th Avenue. Put in protected tracks on 17th and 18th and time the lights for 15mph. Problem solved. This also one of the reasons the 15th Street track is a fail. The lights are still timed for motorists.

mikeybikes

Riding on 17th and 18th Avenues would be hardly holding up traffic for a few miles... They're 3 lanes wide and traffic is rarely heavy enough on those streets that motorists can't change lanes and pass. That's a bull crap argument.

achoo

B-b-b-but he's skeeeered of 17th and 18th! It's not SAFE!!!

But running red lights is.

Would it be ironic or poetic justice for him to get hit by a red-light-running motor vehicle that he failed to see?

mikeybikes

Neither, it would be tragic.

thrllskr

We were watching your videos on Vimeo last week after a ride. We were amazed and taking mental notes! and also LMAO. Ya, and about the judge thing the other guy commented on...if I get a ticket I will just pay the fine, I am not going to try and fight the system. $125 or $150 whatever it is, pay and keep on riding.

thrllskr

Hooyah! You have made my day (not trolling at all). I am going to start taking 17th and 18th and forget 16th. Beside, why should I worry about backing up traffic, I am on a bike. Mikeybikes, you are inspirational.
Also, I am talking about 16th, 17th, and 18th on the east side of Lincoln/Broadway. Take a look at the OP link.

Paul Barnard

I ride in and out of vehicular mode as conditions may warrant. My bicycle is so vastly different from my car that it seems absurd to behave the same on the two. There's not a law that I am not willing to break with proper risk assessment. I have no compunction whatsoever about running a red light or a stop sign. I use the same risk assessment passing through a green that I do when I pass through a red. Here's an interesting factoid. In every traffic light controlled accident, someone with a green light didn't make sure it was safe to proceed. So many people seem to be too hung up on the notion that stopping at a red or a stop sign makes them safe. It doesn't. Making sure nobody is coming before I proceed does. I do that irrespective of the traffic control device, be it a green light, yield sign or stop sign. I slow roll stops often, irrespective of my mode of transport, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I never take the lane for the sake of asserting my "rights." If I take the lane, there's a specific reason for it. I have no problem sliding over so that faster traffic can pass by. That's the beauty of bicycling. I can easily get the hell out of the way of others, and I can do things I can't or wouldn't in an auto. This isn't rocket surgery here.

lubes17319

This is A & S, what did you expect?

mikeybikes

How is that not a troll?

And yes, I knew what streets you were talking about and my point still stands. I used to ride 17th Ave & 18th Ave on a frequent basis when I lived in Park Hill. You're exaggerating the dangers of those streets.

kickstart

That's the great thing about moral superiority, it allows ones cognitive dissonance to run free, not being constrained by humility, empathy, or respect.

spare_wheel

The ironic thing is that motorists almost never complain about weaving and splitting. I get a few shocked looks and some bemused stares but no honking or gesticulation. In fact, the only time I routinely receive complaints from motorists is when I am "lawfully" ascending a narrow lane at a speed slower than that of prevailing traffic. So much for the "you are making us look bad" argument...

kickstart

Well, there it is, you know what everybody's thinking and have deemed it irrelevant.

Thread killer.

JoeyBike

In the unlikely event that I would get corralled and awarded a ticket, I'll just pay it as well. Maybe I could deduct it from my taxes as part of my health insurance costs.

noisebeam

No matter what vehicle I am driving I always stop at red lights and stop signs and line up with other traffic.

I have been tracking my home/work commute for over 10yrs and record the elapsed vs. moving time.

Over 10yrs my elapsed time is 8.5% longer than moving time.

I love to cycle as fast as possible, but am never in a hurry. If I need to be somewhere time critical I leave 5min earlier.

I strongly prefer using arterial roads as they have fewer intersections which present most conflict danger and are used by motorists who are paying more attention.

I have never had a problem with stopping, it makes one a stronger cyclist.

JoeyBike

It's not about being in a hurry at all. It's about LIMITING the number of vehicles getting a free shot at me from behind. The faster I go, and the more red lights I selectively run to cycle in the car-free gaps created by those very same lights, the safer I will be. If ZERO cars pass me on the way to work then ZERO cars can hit me from behind where I have ZERO control of the situation. Everything in front of my handlebars I can take care of myself.


This is true. Unless you get steam-rolled from behind just once. People are not looking through their windshields anymore. The are looking at phones and GLANCING up now and then. I like the idea of ZERO of them interacting with me.

noisebeam

If you stopped in traffic while being observant you would realize this is just unfounded fear. It is easy to stop in traffic while monitoring that a driver behind is preparing to stop as well.

On a typcial commute I get passed by a few hundred vehicles, adjusting for stopping or not. Drivers also pay more attention when there is a lot of traffic, it is impossible not to.

spare_wheel

Jaywalkers don't save much time and...yet...they still jaywalk. The same applies to most jaybikers.

If stopping is about being a stronger cyclist then why limit yourself to traffic signals. You could interval train the whole way home...

joeyduck

I second this.

The side streets here are set up on a grid with alternating stop signs on one side and not on the other. So you can go two blocks before a stop. I get many people stopping when they have no stop sign and I do. It is incredibly frustrating, more so than when they do it at a four way. I usually give an over exaggerated full sweeping wave with a shout of, "you have the right of way".

I figure it is a result of other cyclists just blowing stop signs. I also think that approach speed plays a role. I come to a stop sign pretty fast and they may not think I am actually stopping.

There is a main road I cross from a stop sign with no signal. A least once a week or so I get someone slam on their brakes and nearly get rear ended to wave me through. I do not wave thanks to them and usually mutter something about idiots and the gene pool needing chlorine.

mrodgers

If everyone drove as people in this thread claim they drive, only glancing now and then through the windshield as was recently stated, there would be thousands or even more in every city every day all across the country.

JoeyBike

I am thinking of making a video collection of these snippets I capture almost weekly.

Enjoy...


Not all accidents get reported. Like the one in the video above was likely just "sorry" and everyone went on their way.

Feel free to stop between cars. I'll pass.