I-Like-To-Bike

Yes could happen to a whiny/needy cyclist creating a drama scene at the police station over the so-called "threat" emanating from this street side conversation with a motorist.

energyandair

Despite all the heat and noise, this seems to be pretty simple.

Being seen by motorists in poor light is critical to the safety of cyclists.

Lights that change in intensity or position are a lot easier to see than lights with similar power consumption that are constantly on.

Bright fast flashing lights are very irritating to most people including other cyclists.

Some bright rapidly flashing lights can trigger epileptic seizures in some people. (According to Photosensitivity and Seizures | Epilepsy Foundation "The frequency or speed of flashing light that is most likely to cause seizures varies from person to person. Generally, flashing lights most likely to trigger seizures are between the frequency of 5 to 30 flashes per second (Hertz)."

It is now easy and inexpensive to get tail lights which can modulate light position and intensity in an irregular pattern that is extremely easy to see. e.g. Amazon.com : Portland Design Works Danger Zone Tail Light : Bike Taillights : Sports & Outdoors This appears to enable cyclists to easily avoid the the high frequency pattern that is so troublesome without compromising their safety.

I assume that similar patterns are available for headlights but if not, the light I use https://www.amazon.com/Portland-Desig...ic+dreadnought appears to flash at about 2 hz which seems to be OK.

bmthom.gis

Speaking of blinky lights, I was out riding once and saw a cyclist going the other way. He had a light that did a very slow blink, It took a few seconds for a single blink - almost like a navigation buoy or lighthouse. Anyone have any recommendations of lights to get with that blink frequency?

As to visibility, there is a reason why navigation buoys, lighthouses, and emergency vehicles all have flashing lights - it gets attention! Personally, in twilight or dark, I would run a solid headlight, a solid backlight and a blinky backlight. In daytime, foggy, or overly cloudy conditions, I am strobing up front. I'm usually nice and put my hand over the light if stopped and directly behind someone. We don't have StVZO here, and those lights are expensive. If I didn't mind things that are expensive, I wouldn't mind the fuel pump as much as I do

wphamilton

Could happen to any cyclist making a complaint if the police felt it was trivial. If the cyclist truly felt threatened, that the driver is going to follow through with the threat, then there isn't anything wrong with going to the police IMO. I wouldn't risk it though, if it was just a motorist losing it over something that I could technically be cited for.

Motolegs

None. Last Winter I saw this guy lit up like a UFO. Honestly it was paranormal almost. Once my eyes adjusted, it was just a freindly waving commuter.

But this begs the question: How much is too much when it comes to lights?

kickstart

When it interferes with the ability of others to observe their environment effectively, or distract them from other potential hazards to themselves or others.

The how is more important than the what.

no motor?

I get either compliments or inquiries as to where I got my lights or what lights I'm using. With the occasional person mentioning how they wish other bicyclists were as easy to see.

gsa103

There's absolutely no reason for a flashing light above 200 lumens (peak lumens). You blind the drivers who are closest to you. Flashes are very good at getting noticed but they make judging distance challenging. This is especially true for lights with a narrow beam pattern that have an insane hot-spot.

The reason flashers more noticable is that your peripheral vision is designed to detect motion, so the flash shows up as motion.

Light and Motion has a mode that's closer to a sine wave output. So rather that a sharp flash, you get a smoother variation. It helps reduce blinding while providing some modulation to help your eyes notice it.

As for the brighter is better, once you get beyond a certain brightness its not making you safer. It makes little difference if you can be seen from 2 mi away vs 1/4 mi, you're just generating road rage. You want to be visible enough that drivers have plenty of reaction time. At 60 mph, a 1/4 mi visibility is 15 sec, that's plenty. In most circumstances, sight lines will be significantly less than 1/4 mi.

Not long ago, it was simply impossible to have a bike light that would be remotely comparable to car headlight. Modern LED lights will have hotspots that can significantly exceed car lights (due to shaped beams). Cars have headlights and it doesn't stop them from colliding. You don't see the safety people advocating that cars should always drive around with their high beams on. A super bright light in blink mode is no different than driving around flashing your brights at everyone. Sure, you're more visible, but you're also an anti-social <insert censored word>.

bhkyte

Only about 3 percent of people who have epilepsy have any photoelectric triggers. The commonist frequently is 16 to 25 htz.
Its often presumed that it affects all epiletic suffers.
I doubt there has been a single trigger comfired as being caused by a bike light in this manner. Its too dim and the wrong frequency.
But its a laudable concern.
Just expressed badly.

kingston 

This is an interesting thread. I always thought that cyclists who used flashing lights didn't realize that they were annoying other people. I'm surprised to learn that you just don't care.

scroca

As others have said, I have from time to time been complimented on my lights. I've had people ask me where to get a light like I have.

Never has anyone before today told me I annoyed them or distracted them or caused them a seizure.

My objective is to not get killed on my bicycle. I have no interest in causing problems for anyone else.

Some of the reasonable posters have led me to believe I should look at a second, lower lumen light for using as a flash. If I get one and still get yelled at, I'll let you know.

Grillparzer

I assume bicyclists in your state need more encouragement.

tds101 

I try to use Nite-Ize TwistLit LED flashing lights. They don't blind the drivers, pedestrians, or other bikers. I use a bike light or flashlight strapped to my handlebars aimed down in front of my bike to see - and I never have it flash (too annoying to others). I do want to be seen, and I want to see, but I don't want to be a nuisance about it.

Bike Hermit

Busch & Müller Ixon IQ = $60.00
Busch & Müller Ixon Core= $96.00
Not more than some of the lights mentioned in this thread!

Dave Cutter

Well it's nice to know where your priorities are at. But think about it for a minute. If you trigger a seizure with an on coming motorist... does that make YOU safer? The strobes may be a hazard. The bad thing is that the general public are such sheeple they won't act rationally unless rational behavior is enforced by law.

bmthom.gis

Thanks! That is actually very reasonable. The ones i looked at must have been dynamo.
My front light isn't super bright, and the flash on it sucks (way too fast). I'm looking for replacements, and will look for one with a slow flash (those have to be less annoying while still getting the job done) and another good one for the dark winter months. I might have to look at one of those. Now to see if my shop can order them (i refuse to pay full price!)

PaulRivers

+1

bmthom.gis

^i should say i am looking to replace i because i dont like it, not due to feeling i need something ridiculously bright. Something reasonable. I still believe in lights that blink, but am open to carrying more than 1

Nachoman

Since when is that illegal? Have you been to a DMV lately?

PaulRivers

There you go.

Dannihilator

Please keep things civil.

I-Like-To-Bike

Sound about right to me.

Saving Hawaii

My Ixon IQ Premium was like $104 including shipping. It's definitely in the same league as car headlights. The trick is to buy directly from German retailers. Even with air shipping halfway around the world it's a lot cheaper than what you can find here.

Here's where I got mine. Took a week to ship to California. Their website is kinda confusing. https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/i...ium-led-139357

I-Like-To-Bike

I'm not surprised, but I've been reading BF posts on this list and A&S for quite awhile.

kickstart

I use a flashing tail light on my commuter, but don't use a flasher up front, preferring a steady light. From my personal observations, the fact that a light is flashing is what attracts attention, not its intensity, no need to overwhelm others.
I realize some people "don't care" but it only takes a little effort to have effective lighting without any negative impact on others.

I think its commendable you're taking the time to give it some though.