genec

The roads near my home and and near where I work tend to be high speed arterial in nature, (45MPH+) and thus I tend to ride in the provided bike lanes, (if they exist) thus decreasing my ability to scan way down the block.

Closer to my home, such roads are lined with parked cars (35MPH+) and those parked cars really block the view... Heck I don't even try a right turn on red while driving, as I cannot see down the block enough to determine if a car is coming.

Flat out, at your "20MPH" the answer is no, I cannot see through buildings or parked cars... there is no way I could determine if at least half a block away was clear of Motor Vehicles moving at say 25MPH, closing on me while I was moving at my typical 17-18MPH.

Nope, I need to stop and at least listen, and probably look... at best, I might be able to do this at about 4-6 MPH... just above walking speed.

On rare occasion I might come to a cross street that is curved in such a way that I can see up it and note that no other traffic is approaching, but for the most part, I just can't see around corners... you must have "special powers" to be able to do so, at speed.

Mark Stone

I think what Joey is describing is a classic urban maneuver that I and others have done for years. I do it at much slower speeds and only in residential areas with little traffic. As you approach an intersection with a stop sign/light, you veer as far left as possible, then before you enter the intersection you slice back to the right where you can get a clear view down the cross street. As you are making this "slice" to the right, you glance over your shoulder to the left. If no traffic is coming from either direction on the cross street, you correct and continue through the intersection. If a car is coming either direction close enough to be a danger, you continue forward on the cross street as if it was a right hand turn. I'm not saying this is either right or wrong, and I'm not advocating it, but it is a tactic I've used in the past to get through an area of town or two with expediency lol when faced with a string of stop signs - Joey can correct me if I misread.

Again, I'm not advocating this because it can be dangerous in the hands of the inexperienced . . .

genec

It is also because we are IN THE ENVIRONMENT, where as motorists are IN THEIR CARS... I hear and smell things that motorists are not even exposed to... I once called in a power transformer on the side of the road as it smelled hot to me... I was later thanked and told there was an overload down the line and it would have tripped or "blown up" soon.

Motorists drive by instrument... they see the world as something like a "video representation" on the windscreen and mirrors, outside of their enclosed environment of lights, gauges, sound systems and climate control.

Sure, some cyclists are as "blind" as a motorist... and some motorists might well be observing the real world outside of their vehicle... but for the most part, the situation is as I stated above... cyclists are IN the environment, and motorists are just passing through.

BTW this observation is not just mine... you agreed to it AND it is somewhat noted in the book "Traffic; why we drive the way we drive."

And yes, speed does allow us cyclists to observe that environment quite a bit more than say a motorist might. I really noticed that dichotomy while long distance touring in Baja... at 13MPH, I could see the small signs in the windows of places that would serve me a meal (for just a few pesos...) at 55MPH you just fly by and don't even notice those places. Yeah, speed played a big part in that situation.

genec

You mentioned residential areas... so areas with speeds down around 25MPH no doubt... where shorter sight lines work and where a zig or zag works fairly easily.

Mark Stone

Yes. I would never do this on a busy street/intersection, but I know some (locally) that would.

Digital_Cowboy

I think that you did misread, as i clearly read that he is traveling in the left hand lane for 10 blocks.

Mark Stone

Probably so, after all I left my reading glasses at home today . . .

Digital_Cowboy

Gene,

You've described much of the roads that I drive on. And sadly, down here in Fl we have a mandatory bike lane law. So if one is present I have no choice but to use it.

And like you I do not have x-ray vision and I cannot see through cars or buildings to know that the road is truly clear or not.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, I know that I have seen, smelled and heard things that the typical motorist doesn't. By virtue of the fact that as you've said we are IN THE ENVIRONMENT and not just passing through it.

IF more people took the time to "stop and smell the roses" life would probably be better for everyone.

JoeyBike

You got it. I may also do the "weave" to get a better look down one-way cross streets. But the street that I had in mind is easy to stay ahead of cars trapped at all of the red lights and I get a good enough view from the left lane/left curb to see either way. So I can actually stay in the left lane the entire time (other than splitting past cars trapped at lights here and there).

spare_wheel

Always fun to clear a clump of motorists.

For two way cross traffic the left lane of a two way provides the best visibility. I also move into the left lane when crossing a one way with vehicle traffic coming from the right. Like Joey I typically leave clumps of car congestion behind as I weave back and forth across multiple reds. When I cut through traffic on a particular block I have this immediate feel for where everyone is and where they want to go. For example, when someone wants to pull out and change lanes I will often predict their move and whip right through the space/gap they create. There are very few things I love more about urban cycling than flowing through the evil river of traffic.

That being said I also look forward to a time when infrastructure makes my style of transportation cycling obsolete.

Equinox

I respect your thoughtful consideration. But I would like to point out that when you write something about cyclists behavior on the road, if you substituted "motorist" for "cyclist", your statement would still make absolute sense. I believe that this is a matter of your point of view. My position is that motor vehicles are the problem and I base that on the scoreboard.
"As why do you think that <cyclists> find our presence to be so offensive? It's because of <motorists> who think they can break the laws."

spare_wheel

An experienced urban cyclist will already be on the left side of the lane and will often turn slightly to the left prior to cutting across the lane. Depending on the width of the intersection this quick-turn move could be repeated as the cyclists crosses traffic coming from a different direction. Counter steering gives you the option of a bail out if you misjudge. And the cutting across move not only improves visibility but also facilitates cutting through oncoming traffic (the cyclist is often moving *faster* than oncoming traffic). Urban cyclists often don't realize they are doing these types of moves until they start riding with others -- they are typically pure motor instinct.

spare_wheel

Most of the reds that I flat out run are at intersections with wide sidewalks and no intersection-adjacent parking so there are clear sight lines. And on one way grid systems I often have a few blocks of visibility down the cross street when I ride in the lane furthest away from oncoming traffic. At other lights I slow down enough to get a clear view and then blow the light.

JoeyBike

My eyes (brain actually) are trained to notice gaps that are open, or going to open between objects due to traffic flow when on my bike. Driving a car is exactly the opposite visual workout - looking at objects so you don't run into them. There is almost no way to adequately describe this to someone who has never done it.

mr_bill

A guy who doesn't drive a car much (if at all) "knows" how to drive.

Look where you want to go. This is independent of vehicle.

-mr. bill

JoeyBike

Impossible in city traffic. It becomes "Look at what you don't want to run into". The car right in front of you with apparently inoperable turn signals is a good place to start.

Only vehicles where you can see the ground right in front of your front wheels does this (look where you want to go) apply. Bikes, skis, motorcycles, skate boards, etc. In a car you should be "getting the big picture" like they taught you in Drivers Ed.

Digital_Cowboy

Actually, Eastbay, if I’m not mistaken right on red is legal in most states. Of course I think that they’re suppose to stop first, before making their red. But it seems like few do.

Digital_Cowboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox

I respect your thoughtful consideration. But I would like to point out that when you write something about cyclists behavior on the road, if you substituted “motorist” for “cyclist”, your statement would still make absolute sense. I believe that this is a matter of your point of view. My position is that motor vehicles are the problem and I base that on the scoreboard.

I think that it is safe to say that we all know that there not everyone on both sides of the tarmac that there is PLENTY of room for improvement. As not everyone is a saint on the road, as when I’m out there I see way too many people not signaling lane changes let alone turns. As well as, as I have said rushing yellows usually catching them just as they are changing to red, or not stopping before making a right on red. And just as with cyclists who run red lights/stop signs don’t do anything to improve relations motorists engaging in such actions do not improve relations. Granted as others have said, the whole should not be judged on the actions of the few, but it is hard not to do that.

Digital_Cowboy

Spare Wheel,

The problem is that Joey said that he is in the LEFT HAND LANE, NOT the left hand side of the right hand/outside lane. That is a BIG difference, and if he isn’t preparing to make a left hand turn he really shouldn’t be in the left hand lane. He should be in the RIGHT HAND or OUTSIDE LANE.

JoeyBike

Sometimes, "as far right as practicable" IS the LEFT curbside.

Due to cars double-parked, doors opening, peds j-walking out from between double-parked UPS trucks, etc., the right lane is rendered useless, the center lane dangerous, and the left lane the only sensible place to be.

So if i am already in the left lane i might as well go far left for better visibility down cross streets to my right.

Perhaps it's time for some here to review my world renowned "Bicycle Red Light Running Tutorial" video created in 2009. I think it will clear some up misconceptions nicely for those who don't ride in city grids too often but insist on posting about it anyway.


DISCLAIMER...this video is for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY. You really should not try any of this.

genec

So true... so very true.