Doohickie

...but not slow enough when passing a bus that can't been seen around.

JoeyBike

Aggressiveness covers a wide range of riding technique. What might look very aggressive to someone who only rides in the park on Sunday (or does not ride a bike) may be nothing more than a "ride in the park" to someone skilled and experience in riding shoulder to shoulder with auto and tuck traffic in a city grid at rush hour.

And as far as "confrontational" goes, I have seen more posts highlighting conflict on MUPs here on BF as well as law-abideing-gutter-bunny-drama than I have seen from any of the folks who routinely slice through city traffic like a ghost.

Doohickie

I'll say this: Don't complain about pedestrians crossing mid-block when the cyclist is lane splitting. Both are violations of basic traffic rules. And if you're the cyclist bending the rules it's pretty hard to get on the pedestrians who are bending the rules. But just as the crowd around here blames cars for going too fast for conditions when they hit a bike, I blame the cyclist for going too fast for conditions when he hits a pedestrian.

kickstart

Spending 8 to 10 hours a day on the road in the Seattle metropolitan area, I see many highly skilled cyclists, yet virtually never see the antics you and spare wheel profess to be normal.

If you still don't get what I'm saying, its here where I encounter the most issues with cyclists and other road users. In the real world the vast majority of cyclists, ranging from last choice riders to advanced enthusiasts, seem to get along just fine without resorting to treating everyone else as an unworthy obstacle.

I never realized how challenging it was to ride a bicycle until I started Reading BF, it had always seemed so simple.

VTBike

I think when you live your life in a certain manner people tend to react accordingly and you start to believe that their reaction is normal, and not specific to you.

kickstart

Well that's certainly becoming true here,

Try to make a constructive criticism of a cyclists behavior and the inevitable response is that's how "real" cyclists do it, otherwise they're a "gutter bunny".

spare_wheel

absolutely agree. and the biggest mistake the rider made is splitting as far right as possible. the worst of both worlds in cycling technique.

spare_wheel

lane splitting is often "not illegal" while jaywalking is often illegal. i think both should be explicitly legal.

spare_wheel

that word does not mean what you think it means -- your comments on this thread drip with condescension and disapproval.

JoeyBike

I don't get on them. I know when I wake up in the morning that pedestrians in my town are mindless zombies and I ACT ACCORDINGLY when cycling around them. I keep as far away from them as possible and never get myself in a position where I am ONE STEP away from disaster...even if that means stopping and putting a foot down near a stopped bus. Sure I call them names but occasionally I am a pedestrian too. I look both ways leaving a building before entering a sidewalk much less a live street. If everyone did the same there would be no need for "endearing" nomenclature when referring to other road users.

VTBike

While I don't agree with your premise, I did want to point out that at least his comments have been factually accurate. Factual integrity is much more important to me.

spare_wheel

i see cyclists filtering or splitting lanes every commute. i won't speak for joey but i make a point of not wandering around professing peoples actions to be "normal" or "abnormal".

i rarely have a problem with other road users and i don't view people as obstacles. i do, however, view stationary or slow moving inanimate objects as obstacles. then again if you want to patiently sit and breathe vehicle exhaust during congestion that's completely fine by me. i personally would never expose myself to that kind of risk...

spare_wheel

An opinion is not a fact. And this is not the first time we've had this same conversation.

VTBike

The pot calling the kettle black:

VTBike

An opinion that splitting the lane at 12-15 mph is operating "very slowly" is factually unsupported when the research (and common sense) shows that this in excess of the average speed of urban road cyclists. Are you really going to argue this premise?

It's a logical fallacy to couch factually unsupported arguments as "mere opinion" that cannot be subject to attack. It's a fallacy that losers in an argument invoke when they know that they can't actually defend their argument. Opinions can most definitely be attacked, as your properly was.

spare_wheel

Where exactly did I claim that my comments here are "constructive criticism".

spare_wheel

Common sense is not a "fact". I think you need a refresher course on logical fallacies, VTBike.

A blog posting that you failed to provide a link for is not "research".

JoeyBike

Me too.

Same here. Cars and bikes belong on the street, peds on the sidewalk and crosswalks. If I should venture onto a sidewalk momentarily, I act like a guest in someone else's house. If pedestrians want to cross mid block against all odds, they should act like a guest in my house. I have absolutely no problem with peds J-walking if they are aware. I really have no issues with cars running lights, stop signs, speeding, or making right-hand turns so long as they are not accidentally or purposely causing me extra danger.

And BTW...in the city grid I throw that 3-foot rule out the window. I don't give three feet on my bike and don't expect 3 feet when cars are passing me. I use a mirror, pay attention, and don't mind feeling heat from their engines or smell their cologne under tight rush hour conditions. All is fair except killing me.

spare_wheel

your criteria for empirical evidence and "research" would not pass review in most undergraduate science classes. (thank the goddess i don't have to teach those any longer.)


opinion, not fact.

VTBike

That's not at all what I was referring to. Go back and re-read things.

VTBike

I actually found and read the study on my own. Glad you asked.

VTBike

What specifically about the analysis suggesting that the bicyclist was traveling at approximately 15 mph do you disagree with? Your vagueness is otiose. You yourself stated that he was travelling between 12 and 15 mph. Are you saying that you were purposely misleading us?

spare_wheel

i cut down my bars to ~10 mm wider than my shoulders.

kickstart

I see others split and filter, and I also do it myself at times. The difference is how and when its done. It doesn't take a genius to know the difference between those who take the opportunity when reasonable, and those who force it to fit their desires through excuses and justifications.

Exhaust fumes, car head, meat pylons, idiots, law breakers, road couch, amateurs, gutter bunnies........

VTBike

I love how spare_wheel makes an unsupported allegation, and then when asked to support the allegation acts as if the request was never presented to him. Gotta love that style of debate.