2 Piece

Yeah, I'm not into all this "what if" scenarios. You can "what if" things all day long, it's like the "could of, would of, should of" syndrome. Pass the blame game. I personally believe this type of court room antics should be totally banned.
"Reasonable" is a totally objective and subjective adjective, just saying.

joejack951

The truck driver in the Schneider National case claims that he neither hit or even saw the cyclist who he allegedly knocked off the bike and killed. Assuming that he did actually hit that cyclist, some sort of collision avoidance system for his truck starts to sound a lot more reasonable.

I know this is all 'off topic' but it is way more interesting to me than the typical banter in this thread.

rydabent

While I cant site a specific case, over the last few years on several bike forums, there have have been posts telling of how even tho the driver was at fault, his lawyer tried to make the cyclist at least partly at fault if he wasnt wearing a helmet.

Wearing a helmet wether you like it or not amounts to legal protection too. That why I posted the fact that I wear a helmet, have two flags on my trike and wear HiViz T-shirts.

rydabent

I am not over stating when I say it is hard for cyclist to get justice, especially when a case is before a judge only. The cyclist should always insist on a jury trial.

BTW like the case of the trike rider being killed by an 80+ year old woman here in Nebr, the Co Att wouldnt even charge the driver. As usual the family of the guy run down and killed by that old woman who was known to have bad eye sight had to turn to civil court for justice.

SmithAndEastern

Personally i wear a motocross helmet so it protects my jaw and face too, i get some funny looks sometimes but i don't mind i take safety very seriously

Jean3n16

I wear a helmet. Its nothing special but 1: I want to set a good example for my kids and 2: Id like to think it would do SOMETHING if there was an injury!

CoRide59

Wow, quite a thread here. I didn't read it all, way too long, but I scanned quite a bit. Its very familiar and very much like all the various (and numerous) helmet threads in the motorcycle world. Its always amazed me how helmet use can be such a hot polarizing subject.


So, a quick disclosure of my views. Bicycling, I wear one sometimes. Motorcycling, I wear it all the time. I don't really care if someone else does or not. I have and will fight helmet laws whether it pertains to bicycles, motorcycles, skateboards, cars, or walking down the street. I believe in a persons right to make decisions for themselves good or bad. The ability to make those decisions is I think a basic right. Its my life, your life, enjoy it as you wish. When the government can tell us we have to wear a helmet, its not long before they can tell us we cant take risks at all and bicycles, motorcycles, mountain climbing, scuba, whatever, it all can be gone.


So OK, all that said, I have a bit of experience with TBI's. I've had in my enjoyable, adrenaline fueled 57 years, at least 5 concussions. That's 5 times I've been knocked well and truly out. How many actual concussions I've had I don't know but I used to play ice hockey and on more than one occasion got put into the boards hard enough to come off dazed and a little wobbly on my blades. Were they concussive? Maybe, probably, perhaps, I don't know.


My first concussion was on my bicycle at around 7 years of age (riding the bike in my avatar). Out long enough that my friends carried me home before I woke up. My second was ice skating a few years later. My last was just this last March in a stupid work accident, which was also the only time when I wasn't engaged in some risky but way too much fun form of entertainment. I fell, I don't know why as I don't remember and nobody saw it, but I fell. Unfortunately I was standing on the back of a pickup truck and seem to have taken a swan dive to the ground. I'm still not able to return to work. I am however able to ride my bicycle again, and drive a little, but I don't feel well enough to get back on my motorcycles yet. Sucks being hurt. What really sucks are the memory problems and the problems with concentration and comprehension, and a serious issue with details. Problems performing tasks involving detailed processes. Typing this for instance is taking me forever and I had to try three times to get a stupid rear brake cable properly run on one of my road bikes the other day (I've been building bikes since I was in Jr. High School). I repair old cameras for fun, but since last March I pretty much just break old cameras so I've put them away till a later date. My neuropsychologist says she still thinks I'll get better. I hope shes right.


So I guess you makes your choice and takes your risks and enjoy your life as you wish. Just don't ignore the possible consequences. Oh, and don't tell me helmets don't work. To some extent at least. Bicycle helmets are minimal. Too bad they cant be as big and effective as motorcycle and auto racing lids. Those things have saved my life at least once, perhaps twice. Even as a minimal thing though they will at least keep you from scrapping your hair off, which will hurt and probably ruin your day. So why don't I wear one all the time? Hell if I know, I'm just human I guess...

CarinusMalmari

Oh, but they can, and they shouldbe if you're really interested in safety. As far as I can tell crashing with a bicycle is about the same as crashing with a motorcycle, be it that the latter often, but not nessesarily happens at a higher speed, and also tosses a heavy machine into the mix. But other than that the mechanics are basically the same, and warrant a similar helmet. The reasons why people don't wear motorcycle-helmets on bicycles are similar to the reasons I don't wear a helmet at all: too uncomfortable, too warm, too much of a hassle etc. I guarantee my safety by other means, mainly by being slow, boring and defensive, but I do wear a motorcycle helmet on my moped, a contraption that has a top speed of about 45-50 km/h which is far lower than a lot of people here reach on their bicycles.

njkayaker

This is a mess of contradictions.

CarinusMalmari

Could you elaborate? because in this form your "contribution" adds next to nothing to the discussion.

Miele Man

One thing I've noticed on the web or in newsgroups is that often if someone posts about a helmeted head making contact with the pavement during a crash/spill that many people will state that had a helmet not been worn then the bare head would not have contacted the pavement. They'll say that even if the crash occurred at a fairly high speed.

Cheers

CoRide59

I wonder what the "logic" is behind that statement (theirs, not yours). The weight of the helmet drags the head into the ground?? I've heard too that having a helmet on will cause neck injuries due to the helmet weight torquing around the head. This is in regards to the heavier than bicycle use motorcycle helmet.

Tiglath

Make up your mind. They are the same, and then they are not the same.

"Contradictions" - would be kind comment on your post. "Passing raw sewage for information," would be justice.

There is a huge difference between bicycle and motorcycle crashes, the forces involved are usually orders of
magnitude apart. And one involves a container full of explosive gas, near your chest, and a machine of
hundreds of pounds that can crush you. So much for "about the same."

As far as helmets there is no good comparison either. Good head protection for a motorcycle involves a
complete head cage and no matter the price, discomfort, fogging problems and the impairment of hearing and vision.

Bike helmets are anything but. If you pick the size right after a while you don't even feel you are wearing one.

And you, "guarantee my safety by other means"? Sir, you are a dreamer.

Just because you have not had a serious accident, if you have not, it does not mean you will not. There are no guarantees in life.
Learn the difference. All his life the chicken welcomes the hand that feeds him, but one day the same hand wrings his neck.
Guarantee, my foot.

As usual this poster can't tell his elbow from his lower body parts. Don't listen to him.

2 Piece

While I may not completely agree with CarinusMalmari post, full face motorcycle helmets would provide added protection compared to bicycling helmets.
Now, since you stated his post was "Passing raw sewage for information" what would you call your post? I mean you were not able to even correctly quote him, when his statement was right in front of you. No where in his post did he "guarantee your safety by other means", he stated he "guaranteed His safety by other means", not your safety.
Oh and just so you know that liquid gasoline, the kind found in a motorcycles gasoline tank is flammable, not explosive. Once the gasoline is atomized by either a carburetor or fuel injector the vapors become explosive.
Sorry for the corrections but I hate to see raw sewage being passed on for information.

rydabent

It is logical and reasonable to understand an accident can happen any time and anywhere. Be prepared.

vol

Even in the shower.

Tiglath

It's funny when people make gross mistakes while correcting others. Please learn what "quoting" means.

It means using the writer's EXACT words. His exact words were [I]"guarantee my safety by other means" [...]
not, "guaranteed His safety by other means". When quoting, it is left to the reader's intelligence to adjust the pronouns, mentally. Please learn the difference between quoting and paraphrasing, and if you are going to come out in defense of a poster with such a poor record in making sense, be prepared to share the well-deserved scorn he usually gets in return for his nonsense.

If you have never seen any gas tanks explode, perhaps you should go out more.

Stadjer

I always wear a helmet when I wash my hair.

2 Piece

When a writer is writing a statement that person is speaking for him self not the reader. period end of story, try harder next time, damn. No where in his post did he even suggest he was speaking on behalf on any potential reader. His exact words were "I guarantee my safety by other means, mainly by being slow, boring and defensive, but I do wear a motorcycle helmet on my moped, a contraption that has a top speed of about 45-50 km/h which is far lower than a lot of people here reach on their bicycles."

Your post you stated "And you, "guarantee my safety by other means"? Sir, you are a dreamer."
If I am wrong, please show me where in his post he stated anything about guaranteeing yours or anybody else safety.

Oh, and by the way I spent many years driving gasoline tanker truckers, I know a lot about gasoline. Have you ever seen someone put out a cigarette in a 55 gallon barrel of gasoline? I have, with no explosion. Oh, and no I have never seen a gas tank explode except in the movies. I have seen cars burn to the ground melting the tiers and the tank never exploded.
Here is a little video just for you.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RbjLMFBOpY

howsteepisit

It is logical and reasonable to take proper precautions when needed. Evaluation of the actual risk is best left to the at-risk individual, not crotchety old men on the internet.

Tiglath

I admit that I meant to write,

And YOUR, "guarantee my safety by other means"?

The point is obviously that he can't guarantee his or anybody's safety. My mistake and your splitting of hairs
notwithstanding.

Remember to learn the meaning of "quoting" though.

Please don't lie or ignore clear evidence of a motorcycle tank exploding. Now you have seen a gas
tank explode in a motorcycle crash, update yourself, and admit it can happen. Face the evidence because the
evidence is facing you. That is not a Hollywood movie but a real motorcycle race.

I give you credit for realizing the gasoline+air IS a explosive mixture. And that is what you have most of the
time in a motorcycle gas tank. What do you think is in the empty part of the tank?

If you shoot bullets into a container 100% full of liquid gasoline it will probably not explode. But claiming
that is loading the dice, isn't it? Because that is not the situation in the gas tank most of the time or in a crash,
if the tank ruptures. Volatile, spilled gasoline becomes instantly enveloped in a mixture of gas+air, an explosive
atmosphere, not unlike that of the Helmet Thread.

Kaze6

Now I feel old.

I need a category that says "Didn't wear a helmet until I became of of the first riders willing to be laughed at for wearing a helmet, then always have since."

Kaze6

In the last 59 years, I've seen or responded to hundreds of car and motorcycle crashes and several plane crashes.

Where do I need to "go out more" to to see a gas tank explode?

Tiglath

???

If a picture is worth a thousand words, how many words is a video worth?

I made it easy for you guys who don't go out much and posted an exploding gas tank in a motorcycle race crash,
not a Hollywood movie but a real-life event.

If that does not persuade you that motorcycle gas tanks can and do explode, then it means that I am not
dealing with your reason but your will that you must be right come what may. And since the will can't be
persuaded by argument I have to leave you to it. Carry on.

I hope, however, that if any impressionable or credulous reader has been fooled by the raw sewage that
motorcycle crashes are "about the same" as bicycles crashes, the video will alert them to the nonsense.

Have a nice day.

Kaze6

No, you posted video of a motorcycle gas tank being ruptured by mechanical damage, then sparking a fire as it was scuffed on the pavement.

Gasoline isn't chemically explosive, it is inflammable. The vapor burns, if in a certain range of concentration in air -- too lean ("no gas") or too rich ("flooded") and it won't light. What you see there is the liquid being atomized by the rupture, scattered into the air, and a spark happened in a spot where there was the right mixture.

Your POINT is a valid one, your EXAMPLE is not.