rydabent

The fine of $237 indicates to me that city is just using fines like speed trap cities. They are not concerned about safety at all, they are all about increasing the city coffers.

MMACH 5

Perhaps go before the judge and ask to take defensive driving. Since you were on a bike, tell him you'll take a League of American Bicyclists approved bicycle safety course and bring him a certificate to show you did. Traffic Skills 101 courses are being taught in Plano, very regularly for less than $35.

He might be impressed with the novelty of cyclist getting a ticket dismissed with a safety course.

El Cid

If he doesn't do it again, then the fine was just right.

no motor?

I worked in Farmers Branch many years ago, and the cops were jerks who wouldn't do anything when you needed their help then. It seems like things haven't changed any, I'm glad I left too.

ItsJustMe

Yeah, I think in general fines need to be even higher, though this one seems about right to me.

Coal Buster

Guilty with an explanation is a legitimate strategy but it totally depends on the judge. You are pleading guilty after all. Our judge will usually lower a ticket if you seem sincere and have a good reason/explanation. If you seem like a jerk, i.e. jailhouse lawyer, you'll get the whole fine plus court costs. Guys with lawyers usually get off or lowered fines (don't ask me how that works) but will often get court costs so it doesn't look like ticket fixing.

All in all what legitimate reason did you have to roll through that stop sign? If you can't answer that, you're better off paying by mail.

I-Like-To-Bike

Yes, if the judge is a complete idiot he may not be able to discern that a video of a cyclist at a different place at a different time behaving differently has zero relevance to the ticketed violation.

OTH, good opportunity to make use of a video camera and display the results for everybody's amusement.

KD5NRH

I lived just east of it for a couple years. Learned quickly to just not go that direction unless I had to.

BikeLite

The police car was well behind me as I approached the three way stop intersection. I don't have a mirror to see what is behind me. No traffic was in sight. My speed is a guess, more likely something from 5 - 10 mph. I welcome all comments and will not take them personally. Everybody I tell about it looks at me stunned and then laughs. I do plan to ask for a defensive driving course. Thanks for the advice on how to approach this. I plan to use many of your suggestions and will keep you posted.

First move will be to call the Clerk of Court and get a feel about what goes on in the courtroom. It makes me wonder if the Clerk somehow communicates with the officer about whether to show up in court or not if the fine is paid.

Coal Buster

They're not going to suspend court if you pay your fine. The cop will show up for all the other defendants he's written tickets for. With a population of ~30k, the court will probably be busy. Just be prepared to wait your turn, make your statement, pay your fine, and leave.

dynodonn 

This maybe one of those times where having a mirror may have proved invaluable, and possibly another notch in the case in getting one.

wphamilton

If you have time, there's nothing to stop you from actually sitting in the courtroom and watching how they conduct business.

The Clerk isn't going to tell you anything that could possibly be construed as legal advice. The clerks at the desk might tell you anything, but I wouldn't take it as gospel.

Don't worry about what the Clerk is going to do, or the officer. Find out what you have to do, and what happens when you do it. If the Magistrate asks how you plead, and you say "guilty", then you've had your say in court. He might not even let you speak again. If you go on a spiel about how you feel justified instead of answering, you might tick him off and that's not a good thing either. I'm serious you should go there and watch. My advice: don't trust anyone at the courthouse. They are your adversaries, they are acting against your interests.

If it's a revenue mill, and the size of that fine suggests that it is, then my expectations would be low that I could talk my way into a reduced fine. Pay it online and that's it, no court, no cop no judge it's done. Go into court, plead not guilty, argue your side of it and don't incriminate yourself. But don't fight with the judge.

kickstart

What would the fine need to be to indicate that safety rather than "increasing the city coffers" is the priority?

MMACH 5

In college, I was a delivery driver. I got paid by the delivery, not hourly, so if I hauled-A around town, I'd get paid more. As a result, my knowledge of Dallas streets increased greatly and I absolutely wrecked my driving record. I set a court date for nearly every ticket I got. If the cop didn't show up, it was dismissed. If the cop showed up, don't expect much. Ask for defensive driving, no contest or have a funny or decent sob story that might convince the judge to reduce the fine. I learned a lot about how different courts operated.

In Dallas, the court clerk pretty well told me how it was going to go down ("Wait your turn, I will recommend that he reduce the fine, but he makes the final call.").

In Cockrell Hill, court was always on I think the second Wednesday of the month and every officer who may have written a ticket must be required to be in court, because it seems like the whole force was there.

The strangest was Lewisville Municipal Court. I was there twice and both times, the first case on the docket ended with the person fighting the ticket throwing a tantrum and the judge sending him to the clink for contempt. Then the judge turned to the rest of us in line and said, "Now, if you want to plead 'no contest,' the clerk here will take care of you." About a third of the people who were waiting to fight their tickets opted not to. I was suspicious the first time I witnessed this, but the second time, I was the last case to go up (I lost). Anyway, we closed up the court for the night and on my way out, I saw the guy who was supposedly being held in contempt, sitting in the hall smoking a cigarette and yucking it up with the bailiff. Drama to make folks think twice about arguing in court, I suppose.

dru_

That's interesting. The ones around here sometimes pick up my aluminum bikes, but apparently my CF bike presents problems.

Anyways, the whole rolling the stop thing. Do I do it? yes on occasion. do I agree that bikes should have to? not really, but I too have had, and paid that ticket, under the heading of "the law is clear" and I was in violation. Keep in mind, that I do view these types of citations not as 'traffic safety' but as 'municipal taxes' and as such did successfully argue my way out of having any points assessed to my license ( though I did still pay a reduced 'court fees' tax of $88 ).

At the end of the day, I think we have to realize that in the current climate, we are vehicle and have to deal with laws written for cars that make no damned sense for bikes, but still apply to us. IT becomes our choice to take the 'risk', and our obligation to pay the 'price'.

Jarrett2

Thanks for the heads up. Sorry you got the ticket. I always scan for PoPo when rolling up on stop signs.

Leebo

Don't they make a difference between a motor vehicle and a bike for moving violations? Will it go against your driving record? Here in MA, max bike violation is $ 20.00.

lubes17319

$237 for a 25# vehicle, and $23,700 for a 2,500# vehicle would make me believe it's based on safety.

CrankyOne

If he was behind you then what did he use to determine that you had not stopped? Was the road flat? Humped? Was he up on a hill looking down?

One thing I really miss about Europe is that LE wouldn't generally bust you for something stupid like this (stop signs are also quite rare). They're not as much on a power trip and I don't think revenue rolled in to their local coffers. Laws there are intended to be used when needed not 'just because'. OTOH, people in some EU cities will stand and wait at a crosswalk with no cars in sight until they get a green light.

BikeLite

Answering some questions above...

In Texas a bicycle appears to be the same as a car as far as using the roadways. I will be looking into whether this will go against my car insurance. The road was flat and he must have turned onto it behind me at a distance and gotten closer as I came up on the stop sign. Funny that I have been looking into mirrors for my mountain bike a couple weeks ago. I will get one soon.

Jarrett2

Please let us know how this turns out. I've always been curious if bike tickets in Texas affect either your driver's license or auto insurance.

Paul Barnard

I have always felt like fines should be commensurate with the level of risk the offense creates. I am a retired LEO and there's no way I would have cited the OP if the circumstances were as he described. That said, I slow roll traffic control devices with regularity and would simply accept the citation as a cost of doing business the way I do it.

enigmaT120

That's how I interpret it, when I do it. I just mail them a check. And try to pay more attention in the future.

BikeLite

I went to court. The judge lowered the fine to $50 + $99 court cost. I was nervous and forgot to ask about deferred disposition or a safety course. The court clerk said it would be reported to the state. If my insurance raises my rates, they will be dropped like a bad habit.

rydabent

The right fine?? IMO if you figure a bike and rider at 250 and a car at 3500 pound, rounding up the fine for a bike should be only 10% of what a drivers fine should be.

BTW is that town is enforcing driving laws on cyclist the same as cars, I fully expect that a cyclist should be able to take the lane any time he or she wants to.