Daily Commute

Serge has you nailed on your criticisms of VC rhetoric. Your bile-laden flames go way beyond anything he's written. Actually, in some ways, I hope you keep it up. Every time you flame us, you make the anti-VC'ers look even more shrill. You also make Forester look tame in comparison. Thank you.

I-Like-To-Bike

Ad hominem argument - The final line of defense/argument of the VC ideologue when the exaggerations/fabrications/flights of fancy are subjected to valid criticism or the unsubstantiated claims are challenged; followed by repetition of the same shaky dogma.

Repeat as necessary until only true believers remain.

Somehow, Serge's seal of approval, or the cheap shot use of calling skeptics nasty names rather than providing credible justification to substantiate alarmist claims/fanciful extrapolations does not carry much weight in my book.

noisebeam

This brings to point something I've been upset about. My city has approved a $2 million plan to take 1/2mi of a current 25mph 2-way street with about four stop signs which a good number of students use, but also has a car traffic problem because its a shortcut between to main roads. The plan is to add traffic calming and bike lanes. Yet this road really doesn't help with significant cycling transport needs. Sure it gets some students from campus to apartments and back, but its practially a walking distance. I've ridden this road many times, riding VC is a fine and safe way to do it (while watching students ride every which way, wrong way, sidewalk, you name it but rarely in the right direction in the 25mph traffic lane, all the incidents I've observed were from riding off of sidewalk to cross and jumping the stop signs) Meanwhile high speed roads that actually get cyclists more than 1mi from where they start are terrible to ride due to narrow outside lanes, but these are only minimally addressed in the 2030 plan. Yes, 25 yrs from now the narrow outside lane on these high speed arterials may be widened, so when I'm 60 I'll be able to get somewhere with less traffic stress. So the city pats its back and gets awards for cycling infrastucture, but its infrastructure that lets you ride in circles in BLs around you immedidate neighborhood, when just knowing the basics of VC would have helped you all along.

Al

Helmet Head

Stanley, now you're really cracking me up!

You're the only one using ad hominem attacks and nasty names around here, not to mention your chief weapon of choice: your fantastic imagination employed in constructing colorful but irrelevant strawman arguments.

Serge

LittleBigMan

JRA, I said a "bike facility" that is "crowded with pedestrians" is worthless for cycling. You completely misread my post.

A "bike facility" crowded with pedestrians...now that's ironic.

Daily Commute

Yes, Serge and I always agree. That's a well-informed opinion. Congrats.

As to debating the merits, go to the main VC thread. I've respected the thread-starter's wish not to argue about VC in this thread. My only comments in this thread have addressed the excessive rhetoric of a few anti-VC-ers.

lilHinault

State Street in Santa Barbara is a good example of ...... something, guess you could just call it a dangerous street. Designed for low speed, cars popping out at you from every little side street of which there are a ton, driveways etc., lots of peds around the stores doing goofy ped things and those oh-so-lovely glazed tiles on the intersections, and at least when I was up there for a week, a nearly constant drizzle. Going 20 MPH on state street is hauling butt, you need to go slower and be prepared for anything. I was on my motorcycle and got pretty good at letting the rear wheel kick out turning on the intersections and going like a speedway rider (they don't go all that fast, but they go sideways a lot and it's thrilling).