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Remind Me Why I Should Care What Motorists Think...

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Remind Me Why I Should Care What Motorists Think...

Old 02-17-15, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
I'm simply trying to suggest that its generally not safe to take an intersection at 25 on the far right (or left). (If the speed differential is too high I slow down.)

https://bicyclesafe.com/#rightcross
Ah yeah, good point. Another adjustment, thanks . Keep safe!
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Old 02-17-15, 08:55 PM
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Spot on, but in the interest of accuracy;

Originally Posted by spare_wheel
I do know:

1. Slow down or stop.
2. Look both ways.
3. Run light if there is no oncoming traffic (motorvehicle, ped, or bike, or policeman around).
There, that's better.

Last edited by Minnesota Expat; 02-17-15 at 08:57 PM. Reason: grins and giggles
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Old 02-17-15, 10:19 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
Riding 25 mph in a bike lane and then criticizing someone else for reckless behavior is amusing. At that speed, in light traffic, you are far more visible riding in the bigger lane...just saying.
That's highly dependent on conditions, I do 25+ in bike lanes near my house where there are few cross roads or drives, but in town? no way.

Originally Posted by spare_wheel
I do know:

1. Slow down or stop.
2. Look both ways.
3. Run light if there is no oncoming traffic (motorvehicle, ped, or bike).
That's sensible, but unfortunately not whats exercised by a few.
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Old 02-17-15, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kickstart
That's highly dependent on conditions, I do 25+ in bike lanes near my house where there are few cross roads or drives, but in town? no way.
Yeah...we were discussing intersections.
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Old 02-17-15, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Expat
Nope. I think the vast majority of motorists don't care if cyclists coast through stop signs or only stop briefly at a stop light. The vast majority of motorists understand the mechanics of cycling are different from the mechanics of a gas-powered automobile. Someone that buzzes you on purpose, probably does the same thing to cars on the freeway and pedestrians in the crosswalk.
There is a big difference between buzzing a cyclist and/or, pedestrian. Compared to buzzing a motorist.
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Old 02-18-15, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
Yeah...we were discussing intersections.
Understood that. Outside of town the line of sight is greater, plus there's far fewer visual obstructions, distractions, and points of conflict.
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Old 02-18-15, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
Yeah...we were discussing intersections.
Actually, we were discussing some idiot on a bicycle running a red light.

-mr. bill
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Old 02-18-15, 12:13 PM
  #133  
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This thread will apparently hover near the top of this forum for a while. You've hit on a hot topic, JoeyBike.

However, the exclamations about "what drivers think," how they behave and "they break the law, so I can break the law" certainly makes it seem like you care about what drivers think more than the average person. The fact that you ask the OP question kind of bears that out. The fact that this thread has bounced around at the top of A&S for a month kind of shows that other cyclists care about what drivers think, as well.

(Not sure why I posted this. I guess I was just feeling like dissecting and offering an analysis.) Carry on.
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Old 02-18-15, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Actually, we were discussing some idiot on a bicycle running a red light.

-mr. bill
That too!
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Old 02-18-15, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
This thread will apparently hover near the top of this forum for a while. You've hit on a hot topic, JoeyBike.

However, the exclamations about "what drivers think," how they behave and "they break the law, so I can break the law" certainly makes it seem like you care about what drivers think more than the average person. The fact that you ask the OP question kind of bears that out. The fact that this thread has bounced around at the top of A&S for a month kind of shows that other cyclists care about what drivers think, as well.

(Not sure why I posted this. I guess I was just feeling like dissecting and offering an analysis.) Carry on.

I suspect that, like me, Joey enjoys getting a rise out of car-head cyclists who care so much more* about the hypothetical emotional state of the motorized-couch majority than sharing the road in a civil and equitable manner.

*its A&S so a little bold is mandatory.
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Old 02-18-15, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
(Not sure why I posted this.
Because you care what A&S posters think, of course!
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Old 02-19-15, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Dont worry about what most drivers think, most of them dont.

However it would be a better world if BOTH drivers and cyclist obey the law.
right also why really to care ?
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Old 02-19-15, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Because you care what A&S posters think, of course!
Touché.
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Old 02-19-15, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
..."they break the law, so I can break the law"...
I learned how to cycle through traffic swiftly and smoothly at age 15. I joined Bike Forums in 2007. I am now 56 years old. Between those years I gave absolutely ZERO thought to what motorists were thinking about my lawlessness on a bicycle, a motorcycle, or in my car. Seemed to me that just about everyone was doing whatever they wanted to do out there on the roads.

Only since joining BF and finding A&S was the idea presented to me that I should care how I ride my bicycle in public BEYOND granting right of way when due. So my question still stands. "Given the lawlessness of everyone, why should I care what the other law breakers think of my lawbreaking?"

I AM NOT breaking the law because everyone else is doing so. I am just NOT CARING what the other law breakers think of me and wondering why I should even consider such thing. This thread has delivered some very good points and I am glad I posted it.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 02-19-15 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 02-19-15, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
...
This thread has delivered some very good points and I am glad I posted it.
Me too. It has made for an entertaining thread.
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Old 02-19-15, 02:06 PM
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This link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eudR9fwEnaY didn't work anymore when I previously posted it.
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Old 02-19-15, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I learned how to cycle through traffic swiftly and smoothly at age 15. I joined Bike Forums in 2007. I am now 56 years old. Between those years I gave absolutely ZERO thought to what motorists were thinking about my lawlessness on a bicycle, a motorcycle, or in my car. Seemed to me that just about everyone was doing whatever they wanted to do out there on the roads.

Only since joining BF and finding A&S was the idea presented to me that I should care how I ride my bicycle in public BEYOND granting right of way when due. So my question still stands. "Given the lawlessness of everyone, why should I care what the other law breakers think of my lawbreaking?"

I AM NOT breaking the law because everyone else is doing so. I am just NOT CARING what the other law breakers think of me and wondering why I should even consider such thing. This thread has delivered some very good points and I am glad I posted it.
Do you at least acknowledge there's a difference in perception between not always following the letter of the law while still respecting the intent of the law, and in your face scofflaw behavior where self gratification is the only consideration?
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Old 02-20-15, 01:11 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by bicyclelove
… Running a red light gives us (cyclists) a bad rap. Motorists see us as just scofflaws and don't respect our right to be on the road because of that. This is really the biggest thing I hear from drivers. Running red lights just makes us all look bad.

Originally Posted by spare_wheel
You are forgetting a few:

1. Bikers/cyclists are entitled (or think they are better than us.)
2. Bikers/cyclists don't pay for bike lanes/roads.
3. Bikers/cyclists ride in the middle of the lane (and should ride on the sidewalk/or on a different road/or not at all)).
4. Bikers/cyclists ride too slowly (and should ride on the sidewalk/or on a different road/or not at all).
5. Bikers/cyclists ride on the sidewalk and should ride in the bike lane (or on a different road/or not at all).
6. Bikers/cyclists roll stop signs.
7. Bikers/cyclists wear dark clothing/lycra/chartreuse/tights.
8. Bikers/cyclists don't wear helmets.
9. Bikers/cyclists don't use lights.
I’ve been away from A&S for a while and just happen to note this thread, and skimmed it. As a decades-long, year-round cycle commuter in Boston, and from many discussions with motorists, that is an excellent list. I agree that the opinions of motorists about cyclists’ citizenship in general is way down (and even off) the list.

One public reflection of those motorists’ attitudes is occasionally expressed on a talk radio show here in Boston, The Howie Carr Show with anti-cycling rants as the topic. I once called in with this reply about filtering and (carefully) running red lights.

IMO, just as when the behemoth dinosaurs were co-existing with little furry mammals, they may have been not necessarily predators and prey, but I’m sure a survival strategy for the mammals was to stay away from the dinos just to avoid getting trampled. So too, my survival sense tells me, don’t congregate with cars when they jam up at intersections; and look who won out by following the Law of Survival.

Fortunately my rides are at early hours on lightly-traveled residential, light commercial and exurban roads, and anyways, Boston drivers are notorious for their own “trangressions.”

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-20-15 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 02-20-15, 10:50 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I’ve been away from A&S for a while and just happen to note this thread, and skimmed it. As a decades-long, year-round cycle commuter in Boston, and from many discussions with motorists, that is an excellent list.
I too have had many (too many) discussions with motorists especially regarding red light running. Usually someone asks me "Are you one of those cyclist who runs red lights?" and I proudly respond with "Of course, it's the courteous thing to do!" Then I get the "Whaaaaa...." look to which I immediately respond: "Do you REALLY want me right in front of you when the light turns green? Really?!...Next time I see you behind me I will refrain from running THAT red light and see how you feel about it."

"Oh...I never thought about it that way..."

I love driver education! Running the lights is better for everybody. Everybody wins! Spread the word.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 02-20-15 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 02-20-15, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Running the lights is better for everybody. Everybody wins! Spread the word.
I don't know about,
Most lights I encounter where I ride, it would be the cyclist, not "the word" that would get spread by running them. Actions need to fit the environment.
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Old 02-21-15, 12:52 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by kickstart
I don't know about,
Most lights I encounter where I ride, it would be the cyclist, not "the word" that would get spread by running them. Actions need to fit the environment.
^^^True story. Even my hero Joey couldn't run the few lights on my commute.
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Old 02-21-15, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kickstart
I don't know about,
Most lights I encounter where I ride, it would be the cyclist, not "the word" that would get spread by running them. Actions need to fit the environment.
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
^^^True story. Even my hero Joey couldn't run the few lights on my commute.
There are a few lights I can't run. I generally route myself around the "impossible" intersections. Remember I am riding in a tight city grid and can pick and choose from lots of parallel or nearly parallel streets. Also there are times when the crossing traffic is heavy but moving well and I have to wait like everybody else. EDIT for correction: In this case I filter to the front and wait between the right lane and the right turn lane (so right-turning traffic can get past me). When the light goes green I am ready to put on a nice sprint. Often I am first off the starting line for a hundred feet or so and certainly up to speed by the time the first or second car passes me. Then I just slide over into the lane and catch a draft behind one of the first vehicles up to about 30 mph. If I can keep up, great. If I can't, by now the traffic behind me has spread out enough so I just slide to the right, let one or two more pass me. By then we are hitting the next light. So I limit the number of cars overtaking with this technique. Otherwise, the same 20-30 cars would have to squeeze pass me after every red light.

So even when I stop for a red, I try to be polite when it goes green and hold up as few cars as possible. If I can run just one red, they will never see me again that day.

I should have written: "If you run the red lights PROPERLY and with CONSIDERATION, everybody wins." If you run a red five seconds before it turns green, take the lane on your tricycle, and ride at 12 MPH - then you are a jerk. If I could only ride 12 MPH I would wait for a green, then let all of the cars behind me go ahead. When the light turns amber, then I would cross BEHIND the line of cars and ride my 12 MPH in the empty space behind them. It's called POLITENESS (and self-preservation).

What I do may look arrogant, but few motor vehicles ever have to wait on me. This is what they REALLY want - to not be delayed by a cyclist. I do my best to grant that wish and at the same time get where I am going faster and safer.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 02-21-15 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 02-21-15, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
"Do you REALLY want me right in front of you when the light turns green?
I think most motorists understand this. The problem is that the ones who don't not only view yielding a red as a deviant crime against humanity but also believe that cyclists cutting and getting "right in front" violates the natural order of things.

I try to educate the reasonably calm folk but the ones foaming at the mouth get the bird or a cage slap.

Last edited by spare_wheel; 03-25-15 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 02-21-15, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
There are a few lights I can't run. I generally route myself around the "impossible" intersections. Remember I am riding in a tight city grid and can pick and choose from lots of parallel or nearly parallel streets. Also there are times when the crossing traffic is heavy but moving well and I have to wait like everybody else. In this case I filter to the front and wait between the left lane and the left turn lane (so left-turning traffic can get past me). When the light goes green I am ready to put on a nice sprint. Often I am first off the starting line for a hundred feet or so and certainly up to speed by the time the first or second car passes me. Then I just slide over into the lane and catch a draft behind one of the first vehicles up to about 30 mph. If I can keep up, great. If I can't, by now the traffic behind me has spread out enough so I just slide to the right, let one or two more pass me. By then we are hitting the next light. So I limit the number of cars overtaking with this technique. Otherwise, the same 20-30 cars would have to squeeze pass me after every red light.

So even when I stop for a red, I try to be polite when it goes green and hold up as few cars as possible. If I can run just one red, they will never see me again that day.

I should have written: "If you run the red lights PROPERLY and with CONSIDERATION, everybody wins." If you run a red five seconds before it turns green, take the lane on your tricycle, and ride at 12 MPH - then you are a jerk. If I could only ride 12 MPH I would wait for a green, then let all of the cars behind me go ahead. When the light turns amber, then I would cross BEHIND the line of cars and ride my 12 MPH in the empty space behind them. It's called POLITENESS (and self-preservation).

What I do may look arrogant, but few motor vehicles ever have to wait on me. This is what they REALLY want - to not be delayed by a cyclist. I do my best to grant that wish and at the same time get where I am going faster and safer.
Sound reasoning, and your record demonstrates that it works well for you. I've no issue with that.
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Old 02-21-15, 10:20 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike

So even when I stop for a red, I try to be polite when it goes green and hold up as few cars as possible. If I can run just one red, they will never see me again that day.

I should have written: "If you run the red lights PROPERLY and with CONSIDERATION, everybody wins." If you run a red five seconds before it turns green, take the lane on your tricycle, and ride at 12 MPH - then you are a jerk. If I could only ride 12 MPH I would wait for a green, then let all of the cars behind me go ahead. When the light turns amber, then I would cross BEHIND the line of cars and ride my 12 MPH in the empty space behind them. It's called POLITENESS (and self-preservation).

What I do may look arrogant, but few motor vehicles ever have to wait on me. This is what they REALLY want - to not be delayed by a cyclist. I do my best to grant that wish and at the same time get where I am going faster and safer.
It seems to me you actually do care about what motorists think, maybe more than most cyclists, considering how often you bring up the subject......you just don't want to admit it.
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