wphamilton

I believe that is true in a hypothetical way, but in the real situation I did not. There must be some additional factor. Perhaps in this case, knowing from the start that the activity was risky the personal responsibility of accepting the risk ameliorated the other guy's obligation.

Liability plus medical, as in having insurance that covers your own injury in case of accident. Having that, you would be more likely to have a doctor stitch you up - preventing or minimizing scars - because it's covered AND your own insurance company will go after the other guy. It may not be worthwhile for an individual to get into a fight over it, but that's bread and butter for insurance companies.

That fits with the contradiction of the hypothetical belief and the actions taken. There was some other factor revolving around relative responsibilities. Maybe only that they didn't care about the dent, and no reason for you to compensate them if they don't ask, or maybe something unknown to you.

echale3

Subrogation of a claim with compensation demanded from the at-fault party is absolutely par for the course, despite what the lawyers on the video were saying--it should come as no shock. In the video, the vehicle shown had crumpled sheet metal, damage to the paint, the chrome detail strips, and the bumper. Given that, plus all the other ancillary costs that had to be paid out by the insurance company, I could easily see the total cost racking up to that amount, especially in Canadian dollars.


My wife used to work in the subrogation department of Allstate, I'm pretty familiar with how that works as a result.

DogBoy

In the US, each state has different rules for auto insurance, but states are genarally grouped into no-fault states (you will have PIP) or tort states (you will have med-pay). In a tort state, an auto policy will cover a cyclist if they have Uninsured/Underinsured motorist coverage. This coverage will pay your injuries in the event that other party is responsible and is uninsured or insured for less than your medical damages.

In a no-fault state, you will be covered under PIP for injuries you incur in a crash with a motor vehicle.

For damage you do to other vehicles for which you are at fault, homeowners or renters liability coverage is the most common coverage. This is related to the named insured's liability in all cases except the excluded cases, of which motor vehicle liability and aircraft liability and certain watercraft liability. Riding a non-motor-assisted bicycle will usually be covered by this. If you are on your parents policy, double check that you are covered for liability.

Homeowners/renters insurance will also potentially cover the value of your bicycle if it is stolen, but here it matters from where your bike was stolen, as well as if it was scheduled onto the policy.

Your best bet is to read your policies to see what is covered, and then ask your agent about any specific concerns you have about potential coverage gaps.

As to the damage to the vehicle, I wouldn't think the 6k is unlikely. I was hit (his fault) a few years ago by a minivan. I ended up rolling off the fender and the A-pillar. Luckily I had no injuries. My bike had a bit of damage, but the bill to fix the van was $3,800, mostly to repaint the fender and the hood.

LGHT

Funny story. I actually have the same insurance company and they are great. They go after people with authority and they will probably get at least 50% of that $6,000 plus. As long as fault is considered to be all on the cyclist he doesn't have much of a case. The key is negotiating and getting a quote from OTHER repair shops to show that the repair costs are excessive and the vehicle can be fixed for less.

They typically like to use the most expensive shop in town and have ALL the parts "replaced" instead of "fixed". That means if there is a tiny little scratch on the hood you need a ENTIRE hood. The same goes for the fender, the bumper, etc etc. Once you add up the costs to replace all the parts with NEW parts the bill can be pretty expensive. I had a teenager back into my truck and they took the poor girls insurance company to the cleaners and there was NOTHING they could do about it since the report showed it was 100% her fault and she admitted it.

Chris516

The 'big bill', is because of the repair to the SUV. If he had hit a Ford Pinto, or a Chevy Chevelle. The repair cost would have been a lot lower.

But, In terms of it being common, I don't think so.

FBinNY 

Many years back a friend hit an old lady who was crossing the street in NYC and knocked her down. It wasn't that great an impact, but falls can be serious. It cost him almost $15,000 in actual medical expenses, a few days lost pay and replacement for her watch, a dozen roses and dinner for two. (the roses and dinner were by way of apology, and probably helped keep the claim down). In a sense he was lucky, because she presented him with actual bills and only wanted her expenses recovered. Had she called a lawyer and asked for pain or whatever it could easily have been double.

Chris516

I mean like the traffic reports on the local news radio stations. You will hear of multiple accidents' and vehicles breaking down. Cyclists' don't run into motorists' like motorists' run into cyclists'(remember, they claim they can't see us). Therefore, Not a lot of insurance claims against cyclists'.

Conversely, If cyclists' carried an insurance card. I am almost certain that cyclists' might get damages.

work4bike

I just watched a Judge Judy case where the cyclist ran a red light and a motorist hit him (T-boned him) and the cyclists caused a lot of damage to the car, including a smashed windshield. It was the fastest case/decision I've seen, but understandably since it was all caught on camera from a dashboard cam in a following city bus and clearly the cyclist was at fault.

It was kind of funny to watch the cyclist attempt to blame the motorist, saying he could have been more careful, but from the video there was no avoiding the collision -- cyclist came out of nowhere.

Cyclist lost the case and owes money now.

noglider 

@work4bike, you do realize those are actors on Judge Judy, right?

work4bike

Well then, that tape of the accident was award-winning special effects

noglider 

The cases may be real, but the courtroom action is not.

02Giant 

It is best to know the laws and your rights in the state where you live.

A few years ago a person in their pickup passed me on a 4 lane highway, as he returned to the right lane a boxed chair came out of the back of his truck, I hit it head on. His insurance insisted that they would only pay for aftermarket parts, I was under no obligation to accept aftermarket parts. I filed a claim against the driver for the difference, his insurance company contacted me the day prior to the court date and settled for the full amount.

Grey.

It's television. The participants are "encouraged" to play it up for the cameras and the audience members are all extras, but the cases and the people involved are all very real. I had a friend who went on the show years back because they paid his expenses.

Anyway.

Rylan Kafara was cycling in the city’s northeast in September 2013 when he pulled up to a red light. He says another cyclist cut across the road and distracted him. Kafara ended up hitting an SUV. Kafara’s injuries kept him off his feet for months.

He was distracted. He hit the car. He pays. If a motorist was distracted and hit a cyclist we'd ask nothing less of them.

work4bike

Perhaps, but the point is that if this case was done in a conventional court the result would be the same. I'm waiting to find a video of this episode, which aired Friday evening. Another thing that rang true is the excuses the cyclist was making, attempting to put the blame on the motorist when the tape clearly shows that the cyclist was blowing thru a red light.

noglider 

Agreed.

LGHT

Yeah this is why I received payment for NEW parts as well when I was at no fault. Not sure what the laws say in Canada though.

Chris516

I think they are real individuals with an actual case. But who have stupidly agreed to argue their case on Judge Judy. Instead of regular court.

Submit Your Case - Judge Judy

gsa103

$6200 is pretty trivial for any damage at all. Damaging a bumper is usually $3-5k, just check the IIHS or Consumer Reports tests. Also, since its insurance the driver is entitled to NEW parts, regardless of the availability of cheaper options. Basically, the victim gets to pick who/how they want the repairs performed and its the responsibility of the at-fault party to cover it. The insurance companies may negotiate some, but if you don't have insurance coverage, your only recourse is to hire a lawyer.

jputnam

Standard homeowners personal liability protection in the U.S. is not limited to the insured premises, it covers the named insured(s) world-wide. Coverage for negligence while bicycling is not an unusual claim, though if it can be shown the cyclist was intentionally running a red light, the company might seek to deny coverage based on it being an intentional illegal act, rather than mere negligence.

Of course, details vary by state and policy type, so read your own policy for specifics.

Yan 

Years ago I rear ended a car on my bike, my fault. I put a dent in his trunk and paid him $300 to get it fixed, as per a quote from a body shop. We called the police, I presented my driver's license, everything was officially resolved. I think it's reasonable for the cyclist to be responsible for damages.

I do wonder how a bike can do $6000 of damage to a car though. I don't know what kind of car you drive, but that's definitely not trivial for a car repair. That's one fifth the price of a new vehicle. I hit a deer at 100km/h and that only cost $4000. Had to have the whole hood, bumper, side panel, light, REAR side panel (the deer spun in the air and hit the back of the car again, somehow), and hubcap replaced. The car was a Toyota Camry, a family sedan. That's right, the same brand of car as the one in question here. The repair was done at the Toyota dealership, pretty much the most expensive place you can go to for repairs. New parts, obviously. I can't image how a human can do that much damage to a car and still live.

He needs to dispute the amount.

Edit: I found an image of the damaged in question. How in the F'ing world does THAT cost $6000? Ridiculous.

SlowNeasy

I'm not surprised . We are all responsible criminally and civilly for our actions. But in the States it will probably take a lawsuit not just a bill from the insurance co. I don't know anything about Canada's laws. (Eh)

work4bike

I'm still trying to find the episode of Judge Judy that had that great video of a cyclist blowing thru a red light, but it's been too soon since airing. However, I found this one, where the cyclist won his case .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK5TKsaT-0U