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Should bikes be allowed in Drive-thrus?

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Should bikes be allowed in Drive-thrus?

Old 02-22-15, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by The Quiet One
You learn something new every day. I thought all states considered bikes vehicles.
They may, but this applies to public roads and not drive-throughs, private parking lots, etc.
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Old 02-22-15, 01:09 PM
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Bikes should be allowed to use the drive throughs, but the decision should be up to the business owner. The real way to encourage this isn't to pass a law mandating that they let bikes use the DT's, but rather pass laws that protect them from unreasonable insurance costs or legal liability if they choose to serve bicyclists. That and change the culture so that bicyclists in the drive through lane are just seen as something normal and acceptable.
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Old 02-22-15, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jputnam
Having sold commercial insurance in the past, I've never encountered a policy that excluded premises liability for bicyclists in drive-thrus. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I won't believe they do until someone actually provides a copy of a policy with such a restriction. "Insurance liability" is a convenient cover for any number of arbitrary business decisions that management doesn't want to take ownership of, and most customers are quite willing to blame some faceless insurance company.
I suspect that phoney-baloney blame placed on imaginary "insurance liability" requirements also is the basis of most, if not all mandated helmet wear rules for adults on organized bicycle rides and tours.

Has anyone actually seen and read any business or personal insurance liability policy that required either prohibitions or requirements for [non competitive] bicycle use over and above that required by the law?

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 02-22-15 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 02-22-15, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SimicRecluse
I've gone through a mcdonalds drive-thru on a bicycle once when the lobby was closed. The clerk there was going to deny me food for it, and got a little huffy about it.
Heh. I see what ya did there.
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Old 02-22-15, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by John Hood
Bikes should be allowed to use the drive throughs, but the decision should be up to the business owner. The real way to encourage this isn't to pass a law mandating that they let bikes use the DT's, but rather pass laws that protect them from unreasonable insurance costs or legal liability if they choose to serve bicyclists. That and change the culture so that bicyclists in the drive through lane are just seen as something normal and acceptable.
I agree with you, except that I don't believe that there are any unreasonable insurance costs or legal liability involved with bikes in drive-thrus. Insurance liability is sort of a standard claim people make when what they mean is "It's my decision and none of your business". Yet, for all the times this has been claimed, I've yet to see an actual example of insurance making any distinction at all about bikes in drive-thrus.

I think that the last sentence is more on-target. It is the culture, just attitudes, that needs to change.
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Old 02-22-15, 02:36 PM
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It may or may not be an insurance exclusion. I doubt the risk to bikes is significant, and is likely far less than the risk during the ride on open roads to get to the drive-up.

Perhaps they should prohibit selling coffee to bikers... in case they spill hot coffee on themselves.

Personally I could care less as long as there is an alternative, although I can relate to the moments when I've either forgotten my lock, or chosen to ride without the lock, and wish to make a quick stop. I have actually skipped many stops because of not wanting to leave my bike unattended outside, so one would think stores would actively try to make more customers feel welcome.

There are, of course, places with either no bike racks, or poorly situated bike racks. I've even encountered public institutions without bike racks.

My peeve is when the establishments choose not to sell to customers without a car, and there is no alternative of walking inside.
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Old 02-22-15, 05:56 PM
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I've done both fast food and banks on my bicycle - the fast food was a bit 'shocked' when I got around to the window, but didn't balk at taking my money or giving my food... the bank however, did request that in the future I opt to come inside for 'service'... which I didn't, due no place to lock my bicycle at that bank. The next time I came to the bank drive through the manager requested again that I come inside - and I requested that they have a bicycle rack if they want bicyclist to come inside... never had another issue.
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Old 02-22-15, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Fishmonger
Want a meal on 2 wheels? Utah may halt bikes in drive-thrus | KSL.com

I've been chastised as I went through a drive-thru on my bike to pick up dinner for my kids. I don't carry a bike lock because I don't need one at work or home.

Tell me what you think about this article.
get a lock
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Old 02-22-15, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
I agree with you, except that I don't believe that there are any unreasonable insurance costs or legal liability involved with bikes in drive-thrus. Insurance liability is sort of a standard claim people make when what they mean is "It's my decision and none of your business". Yet, for all the times this has been claimed, I've yet to see an actual example of insurance making any distinction at all about bikes in drive-thrus.

I think that the last sentence is more on-target. It is the culture, just attitudes, that needs to change.
The problem here is one of perception. If the owners perceive that they are at risk of a lawsuit or higher insurance costs that's often enough. Corporate America does a lot of silly things due to fear of lawsuits.
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Old 02-22-15, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
Bikes should be allowed in drive-thru's, but it's inappropriate for statute to prohibit or require it. It should be the business's right to decide whether or not they want to cater to customers on bicycles, and let the free market determine how wise their decision is.
Agreed. This should be up to the businesses not the legislature. We already have enough stupid laws. In any event, drive through or walk through it shouldn't matter. If banks can do it, then fast food should be able to as well.
Originally Posted by MMACH 5
Here in Texas, Jack in the Box prohibits bikes and walk-ups at their drive thru. Taco Bell, no problem. Whataburger, no problem.
I think Sonic has figured out a decent solution. They have a walk-up window.

I just don't go to Jack in the Box, if it's after the lobby is closed.
I hope you will write a letter to the respective companies and tell them that.

Last edited by KraneXL; 02-22-15 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 02-23-15, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Don in Austin
Starbucks has a corporate policy no bikes in the drive-through. One good reason I don't patronize them. In Austin we have lots of locally owned coffee shops, many with drive-throughs. They are very friendly and the girl with purple hair and three nose rings is happy to fill you water bottles.
I take my bike into the Starbucks stores that I frequent. It must be their corporate policy to allow that.
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Old 02-23-15, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by John Hood
The problem here is one of perception. If the owners perceive that they are at risk of a lawsuit or higher insurance costs that's often enough. Corporate America does a lot of silly things due to fear of lawsuits.
Guess what's the first thing that will happen if a ped or cyclist is run over by an inattentive driver? The ambulance-chasing lawyers will unequivocally advise them to go after the BIG BUSINESS. Why sue the driver for mere tens of thousands when you can grab millions off a faceless corporation that juries have far less sympathy for?

The reality is that for decades this is exactly what has been happening and the end result is an understandable paranoia that screws up basic courtesy and common sense. Just like in China where people have tried to help and ended up getting sued.

Allowing "easy access" without checking with their lawyers first is almost surely going to bite the business in the ass sooner or later.

Heck, I'm not so sure I wouldn't be tempted if my lawyer promised me zero costs if we lose and millions if we win.
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Old 02-23-15, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by John Hood
The problem here is one of perception. If the owners perceive that they are at risk of a lawsuit or higher insurance costs that's often enough. Corporate America does a lot of silly things due to fear of lawsuits.
I wonder how many customers they actually turn away due to the silly policy?

Say there are 300 million people in the USA.
Say one out of 300 gets turned away from a fast food restaurant for walking or riding a bike up to the driveup window... especially after hours when there may be no alternative.

That would be over a million lost sales. Potentially many more if the actions affect future sales, or affect the sale of items for multiple people.

As they say in business, it is a lot easier to loose old customers than to gain new customers.

Anyway, bad policy could potentially loose a business more money than they might loose if there was actually a lawsuit.
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Old 02-23-15, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I wonder how many customers they actually turn away due to the silly policy?

Say there are 300 million people in the USA.
Say one out of 300 gets turned away from a fast food restaurant for walking or riding a bike up to the driveup window... especially after hours when there may be no alternative.

That would be over a million lost sales. Potentially many more if the actions affect future sales, or affect the sale of items for multiple people.

As they say in business, it is a lot easier to loose old customers than to gain new customers.

Anyway, bad policy could potentially loose a business more money than they might loose if there was actually a lawsuit.
Apparently the demand is not quite there to force a re-think of the system. Your figures are extremely optimistic.

I guess the majority of peds or cyclists will simply shrug their shoulders and find an alternative. Having one bad experience hardly means people will swear off an enjoyable, convenient ff joint forever. It's the militant minority who gets upset when the world doesn't revolve around them.

I think having an alternative walk/cycle-through makes sense, but if thousands of fast-food restaurants start allowing foot traffic and cars to mix, especially during late hours, people are most definitely going to get hurt.
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Old 02-23-15, 08:07 AM
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It should be up to the individual business, if you don't agree with their business practices one way or the other...move on.
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Old 02-23-15, 08:17 AM
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Businesses that ban bikes in their drive thrus are basically praticing discrimination against the poor and the young that dont have a car. A law suit or the threat of one might swiftly change their "company policy".
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Old 02-23-15, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Businesses that ban bikes in their drive thrus are basically praticing discrimination against the poor and the young that dont have a car. A law suit or the threat of one might swiftly change their "company policy".
And don't forget the environmentally conscious radicals... Or those that just like to get ga bit of exercise.

Or, as happened in the case of my being turned away from walking Wendy's, discriminating against their own local clientele.
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Old 02-23-15, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by John Hood
The problem here is one of perception. If the owners perceive that they are at risk of a lawsuit or higher insurance costs that's often enough. Corporate America does a lot of silly things due to fear of lawsuits.
It's plausible but I don't think so. Business owners, even Corporate America, don't usually let perceptions get in the way of a profit. I think that the main concern is usually about loitering and crime. If you've got a rowdy element making a habit of loitering in your parking lot, that's bad for business. The manager or owner walks out and tells them to get lost, problem solved. But with a walk-up, some of them get a coke or burger, in a sense you're encouraging that. Then you've got a problem - it's not so easy to run off a paying customer. You might really be subject to a lawsuit, or alienating business, or have to put up with the disruption. All bad choices.

They'll tell you "insurance" because there are some things you just don't say to customers. You can't tell people that you have a policy because you might need to run them off. Or because you're afraid that some of your customers will commit crimes. In a bar sure, but not in fast food. People will worry about it, be offended, stay away.

This whole conversation brings me back to my high school days, we owned a restaurant in a small town. Full service/fast food. We branched out in another town later and I ran that one for a year or two. We did have a walk-up, not a drive-thru, and surprisingly people did tend to use it and many of them sat in their cars and ate. There was never any loitering to speak of although now and again a traveler would overnight in the parking lot. There were no insurance restrictions, no concern about the liability of people walking or biking in the parking lot; other than the real concern of keeping the window area dry, accessible, without obstructions, etc. But you can be sure that had some problem developed we'd have closed the window in a heartbeat. I'm sure that the company line would have been "insurance liability."
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Old 02-23-15, 09:16 AM
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so, Rep. Johnny Anderson thinks having bikes in drive-thrus is dangerous for cyclists and could lead to more accidents and robberies at drive-thru windows, although he said he is not aware of any such incidents. so, he's speaking out his arse on this point. however, i have to say i support him in saying that the government is overreaching by forcing this particular regulation upon businesses. i agree it's up to the business to make the call based on safety, or whatever the purpose. whether it's a sound business decision is up to the vendor.

now,to that point, i have to wonder if anderson feels the same, that it's an over-reach by government to require a baker to sell and customize a cake for a gay wedding, which he might oppose ? shouldn't THAT be up to the business owner(s) to make that call ?
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Old 02-23-15, 09:34 AM
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Nope because in the US GLBT are a protected class, making discrimination against them illegal. Basically the law says that discrimination is legal unless it against a specified class, then its illegal.
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Old 02-23-15, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
Here in Texas, Jack in the Box prohibits bikes and walk-ups at their drive thru. Taco Bell, no problem. Whataburger, no problem.
I think Sonic has figured out a decent solution. They have a walk-up window.
I like Sonic's burgers better than any of those except possibly Whataburger anyway, and it's nice to just hop the curb, ride right up to the table and have the bike within arm's reach the whole time.

Jack in the Box isn't an option anyway; in the time it takes them to figure out how to make an overpriced, barely over McD's quality burger, my chain would rust up solid. I sometimes wonder if they're secretly owned by Whataburger, which uses them to say "see, we're not the slowest fast food place."

Of course, there's always the simple solution of not closing the lobby until closing time. It's not like they clean them very well anyway. At least Sonic gets power washed daily.

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Old 02-23-15, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by randallovelace
I've done both fast food and banks on my bicycle - the fast food was a bit 'shocked' when I got around to the window, but didn't balk at taking my money or giving my food... the bank however, did request that in the future I opt to come inside for 'service'... which I didn't, due no place to lock my bicycle at that bank. The next time I came to the bank drive through the manager requested again that I come inside - and I requested that they have a bicycle rack if they want bicyclist to come inside... never had another issue.

Just curious, are you related to Linda Lovelace?
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Old 02-23-15, 04:09 PM
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Patronize food trucks. They are generally locally owned, bike and pedestrian friendly, and have better, more interesting food.
Wow, this right here. Cannot have said it better myself!
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Old 02-23-15, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Businesses that ban bikes in their drive thrus are basically praticing discrimination against the poor and the young that dont have a car. A law suit or the threat of one might swiftly change their "company policy".
I am neither...what can I sue them for?
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Old 02-23-15, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Businesses that ban bikes in their drive thrus are basically praticing discrimination against the poor and the young that dont have a car. A law suit or the threat of one might swiftly change their "company policy".
Originally Posted by 02Giant
I am neither...what can I sue them for?
Discriminating against the well off and/or elderly (or at least not "the Young") who don't own cars?
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