Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego, California
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Apple Krate, Trek 7500, Three speed Fair Lady, Western Auto Buzz Bike, Univega mountain bike
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Questions on painting a bike ...

    (I hope I'm in the right forum with this query ? This is my first post so forgive me if I'm in the wrong one. )

    I just purchased a late 60s Western Auto 5 speed Buzz Bike on Ebay that appears to have gone though some type of acid rain bath -- there's more primer and rust visible than there is paint on this frame. That being said, what's the best way to prepare this frame for paint (sandblast?), and -- AND -- who does one seek that paints bikes today ? I've heard professional bike painters charge $500 to $600.00. I often see ads from the Maaco's and Earl Scheib's of the auto world running ads to paint cars for as low as $199.00. Would I be presumptuous to assume that a decent paint job on a tiny -- TINY -- 20" bike frame and chainguard wouldn't exceed half that price ? If I catch them on a slow week maybe ?

    Also, anyone in here ever had to rechrome such things as rims and fenders ? What does replating run in price ?

    ... Why am I doing this ? It's about retrieving a childhood dream. As a kid I often visited places that sold Schwinn Krates, and Western Auto Service Centers that sold their brand bicycles. My parents couldn't afford either the pricey Schwinn or the lesser priced WF Buzz bike, thus all I have from those days are unrequited dreams of not only sitting on one, but actually owning one. The farthest I got to that dream as a kid was getting the nerve to touching their handlebars in their respective showrooms. I never felt worthy of sitting on one, knowing I would never own one, so that's as far as I got. I bought the Krate two years ago for $1200.00, and have put a little money into buying a few things for it, but the WF Buzz Bike is the one needing the most attention at the moment.
    I enjoy going to the marketplace and seeing how much I can do without. Aristotle

  2. #2
    Radfahrer Rincewind8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    653
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Try the search function (http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php). This has been discussed many times. I am sure you can find some good advice that way. Also, you might want to consider powercoating instead of painting the frame.

    Good luck!
    TH 1.81 (133kg*62)

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pleasanton Tx
    My Bikes
    old,older.and very old
    Posts
    1,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Buzz bike not having the price of the Krate --- I agree,power coating might be the way to go .I sand blast all the frames I paint.The trick is in using a VERRRRY fine grain sand.And getting all the rust removed.The WF buzz should be a fun bike.Good luck---sam

  4. #4
    Seņor Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need to be careful when getting your bike painted in an auto body shop. The painters are used to painting long, flat surfaces, and many have not had experience painting a shape as complex as a bicycle frame. You may instead want to look at shops that have experience with motorcycles.

  5. #5
    Senior Member bbwolfy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    128
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    auto body shop painters can paint your frame. they can uaually fit you in when they sandblast something else and prime right away if you are patient. A good auto body painter can paint your frame they know how to apply paint the frame is just a liitle awkward, but is a nice change of pace. The only problem would be a candy color, a solid color is no problem.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego, California
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Apple Krate, Trek 7500, Three speed Fair Lady, Western Auto Buzz Bike, Univega mountain bike
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rince -- Thank you. I'll do a search. By the way, is this the right thread to pose such restoration queries ?

    Sam -- As you may or may not know, decent conditioned 5 speed Buzz bikes run about half that of a 5 speed Krate from that era on Ebay, so I'm willing to pour a little money into it to bring it to showroom condition. It's complete, but in really bad shape. I'm debating whether to have the plastic shifter "rechromed". I wonder what that would cost ? Is it possible to powdercoat a Murray type chainguard, which is part chrome ? Also, is powdercoating about the same price as a regular paint job ?

    BryE -- I heard that before when I thought of repainting my red Krate a year ago. I never even thought of a motorcycle shop, thank you for the suggestion. Great suggestion. By the way, do you know if bikes from that era utilized the paints and processes they use today; Is the process the same, i.e., sand, prime, paint, and clearcoat ?

    bbwolfy -- What's a "candy color" ? Isn't a candy color also solid in a sense ? I want to stay true to its original colors, which was a candy red similar to the red that Schwinn used on their Krates.

    Thank you all for your responses. I know I've asked a lot of questions. Mucho appreciated, though.

    By the way, what can one substitute for those one piece metalic stripes many bikes embellished their frames with from that era (They're usually located on the seat post, or on the lower bar somewhere right below the shifter) ?
    Last edited by PalaniRides; 02-07-06 at 11:28 PM.
    I enjoy going to the marketplace and seeing how much I can do without. Aristotle

  7. #7
    Radfahrer Rincewind8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    653
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by PalaniRides
    Rince -- Thank you. I'll do a search. By the way, is this the right thread to pose such restoration queries ?
    General painting questions might get more responses in "Bicycle Mechanics". Since it is also some sort of restauration you might also want to look into "Classic and Vintage".
    TH 1.81 (133kg*62)

  8. #8
    Seņor Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by PalaniRides
    By the way, do you know if bikes from that era utilized the paints and processes they use today; Is the process the same, i.e., sand, prime, paint, and clearcoat
    Disclaimer: I've done quite a bit of research in preparation for painting my own bike, but I'm by no means an expert, and everything I write after this could be entirely wrong.

    In the late 60's, acrylic enamels were just coming into common use. They were used on cars; I don't know if they'd made it into the bicycle world by then. Before then, acrylic lacquers with added plasticizers were used. Today, bikes are painted with urethane enamels, where are much tougher and are more resistant to ultraviolet light and acid rain, so I would have to say that the paints are different from 40 years ago. As for the process, I really have no idea, although I will say that it's likely that the paints used in the 60's were single-stage paints (that is, no clear is applied over the color).

    If you're absolutely set on getting an authentic paint job, you can get a single-stage mixed to your color specifications. I know DuPont has a single-stage paint, and I'm sure others do as well. It may even not cost as much as a color+clear combination, but I don't think it would be as durable. You may have trouble finding someone to apply it for you, though; shops may be hesitant to put paint they're unfamiliar with into their expensive spray guns.

    Another thing to consider is decals. If you're going for an authentic restoration, you'll need to find someone who can replicate the original decals on the frame. There are some pro bike painters who can provide this service; you can search the forums to find more information than you would ever want to know.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pleasanton Tx
    My Bikes
    old,older.and very old
    Posts
    1,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For great decal repops try Velographic.You can check out Mikes work under the Vintage section on this forum. I use DuPont single stage for all my work.The secret is using a two part epoxy primer---bad stuff if you inhail!---sam

  10. #10
    Seņor Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by frameteam2003
    For great decal repops try Velographic.You can check out Mikes work under the Vintage section on this forum. I use DuPont single stage for all my work.The secret is using a two part epoxy primer---bad stuff if you inhail!---sam
    If you're interested, there is a water-based two part epoxy primer that is sold by Nelson Hobby for use on model aircraft. It's actually made by System Three Resins, but they allow Nelson to repackage it and sell it in small quantities. From everything I've been able to find out about it, it's very tough stuff and very safe to use. I'm going to use it on my own bike this spring. I'd considered using PPG auto paints on my frame, but the emissions were just too much for me (I have kids, and I just couldn't bring myself to justify even the chance that they might be exposed to the isocyanites released by curing paint).

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego, California
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Apple Krate, Trek 7500, Three speed Fair Lady, Western Auto Buzz Bike, Univega mountain bike
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What's an epoxy primer, and how is it different than any other metal primer ? Is the type of paint very important if I do go into a car body shop or cycle shop to get it painted ? Can't one assume they are probably using "good" materials anyway ? All I want is the color to match and something that will be durable ... as you can sense, I've never had anything painted, thus the continueing ignorant questions.

    Thanks for the tips on the decals, frameteam. I'll check that out.

    ... Wait until I start asking questions on rechroming.
    I enjoy going to the marketplace and seeing how much I can do without. Aristotle

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pleasanton Tx
    My Bikes
    old,older.and very old
    Posts
    1,020
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Epoxy primer is just that---like very thin epoxy glue---you mix two parts together and spray in the time given.I also should have said ---self-etching---which means the primer will "eat" into the metal for a good set.I feel the primer is a very important part as its what really sticks to the metal and the color coat sticks to it.---If anyone is spray-bombing a frame they can use oven cleaner for a cheapo metal prep to get the rattle can primer to stick better.Spray on the oven cleaner wait about an hour--wash off with water very good ,dry and prime.Almost all paints used by auto-shops would be great---especially if you took by some cold beer and they sprayed it with left-over paint(before the beer!).And ask questions too.Like how lone the paint should cure---good luck---sam

  13. #13
    Senior Member bbwolfy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    128
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i,m with frameteam2003 almost all body shops use pretty decent products. candy color is actually a three stage paint system it can appear as a solid color, but is actually a base color(solid , metalic or pearl) a tinted clear and a clearcoat. Beer does seem to work better than cash at some shops after hours.I wish I could replied sooner but I was on vacation. Hope it turns out great for you ,and we get to see the end result good luck.

  14. #14
    Dr.Deltron
    Guest
    The problem with Auto shops painting bicycles is as stated on other posts; that car painters HATE to paint the complex canvas of a bicycle frame. Usually resulting in "holidays" in the finish. Some car painters are aware of this and others, not so much. Do a Google search for "bicycle painters" and you will find several. Brian Bayliss is an awsome bike painter/builder. (you may have to wait quite a while to get one painted by him, as you will be at the bottom of the list). Also Joe Bell is also a "Top ***" bike painter. (if he's still painting).
    As for re-creating the original look, there are two ways to go; A painter can use modern auto paint and re-create the original color and design, and finish it with clear. It will look "like" the original, but would not win in the restoratioin category. OR...the painter can use materials that closely resemble the original. Usually an enamel with no clear coating. That's why the pinstripes are usually worn off from years of polishing & cleaning. So a true restoration paint job would NOT have a clear coat and the stripes are done by hand (v. spray masking). Obviously you wouldn't want to put too many miles on a restoration paint job, but would be happy for years with modern materials.
    The chemistry of auto paints changed considerably just before the turn of the milenium. Now epoxy is lead free and the clears have far less VOC's (volitle organic componds, like isocyanate) The colors are now available in water based materials. Very cool!
    Powder coating is a different process altogether. It is applied with a special electrified *** and then must be baked to the frame. Baking temps run from about 175-400 degrees F. The finish is for the most part, bullet proof. However!...one drawback. When baking, the powder melts and surface tension will cause the coating to thin along the edges. Like the edges of lugs, cable guides etc. This is where the rust will start showing up. Adding a clear powdercoat the base color powdercoat will not fix this as the same surface tension will cause the pc to draw back from sharp edges. To preclude that from happening a powdercoated frame should be finished with a quality clear PAINT. That will usually seal all the edges AND be bulletproof. Other powder coat considerations are somewhat limited color choices. Candy colors ARE available and usually put over a silver base. THEN the second or third colors would have to be painted over the powdercoat base and then cleared for durability.
    Is this too much information?? Good luck and I'll keep an eye on this posting for further questions.
    (as a note; I've been painting bicycles exclusively for about 30 years) More Q's? I'll answer any and all!
    Ciao,
    Dr. D

  15. #15
    Seņor Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Central Illinois, USA
    Posts
    206
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Deltron
    More Q's? I'll answer any and all!
    Ciao,
    Dr. D
    Since you offered ...

    I'm going to paint my frame this spring. I was initially planning on using a System Three Resins epoxy primer and polyurethane clear because they're water-based, and hence I won't need the equivalent of a space suit to avoid inhaling the fumes. I'm planning on using Createx Auto Air paints for the color.

    I haven't purchased anything yet; so I'm still open to suggestions. I really like the Createx paints because of the range of their product, but do you know of any alternatives for the primer and clear? My only requirements are that they should not release dangerous fumes while curing, that they be durable enough for use on a bike, and that they are available in small enough quantities that it's economical to paint a bike with (that is, I don't want to buy a gallon of clear and use only a pint of it on my frame).

    Thanks!

  16. #16
    Dr.Deltron
    Guest
    OK,...I'm renew to ALL the different brands of auto finishes currently available. What was top quality 8-9 years ago isn't even made anymore. So, with what I know of the new stuff, I use a (still TOXIC) lead-free epoxy primer from PPG (the LFDP series). Smallest quantity is a quart and you need catalyst as well, plus reducer. Once that is applied and dry, I go through and bondo (special fine grade) all the dings, rust pits etc. Sand all that smooth(320-380 grit wet sanded). Then clean the frame thoroughly with a damp towel. Then again with wax & grease remover. Now spray a second coat of primer to seal and cover all the bondo & sanding.
    THERE!... the frame is primered!
    NOOOOW you HAVE to spray the base color (within 24 hours, while the primer is still "open"). I just saw Mickey Harris at a seminar and he uses and recommends the Auto Air Colors. I just tried them and I'm pretty impressed! And you DON'T need the spacesuit to spray it! Just stand upwind. From there it's just go wild with colors, effects, etc.
    THEN it's back to the space suit fot the nasty clear. I have been using PPG's DCU2042. This is a low VOC but I still get into the suit. Usually it takes a light first coat, wait 30 min, a wet coat, wait 20 min, another wet coat. Work this coat so you get it all wet at once with no overspray or orange peal areas. Now, step back and watch out for knats. If you see any, open up the fluid dial on your *** and zap the little buggers with a "healthy" blast of clear. Be sure that they are not hovering directly above the frame, as they will assuredly fall into your wet clear. And to keep dust to a minimum, wet the floor before you spray, especially the clear.
    Voila~! You have a beautiful new paint job! Let it hang for a week or so before putting all the components on. NOT really neccessary, but it doesn't hurt to let it breathe. Like fine wine!

    Downside(s)...you have exposed yourself to some pretty techno toxins to some degree. (less IS better!)
    AND you've laid out about $200-$300 for materials. Spent endless hours cleaning spray equipment and yourself. Total time spent; 20+ hours easily.

    WHAT TO DO?!...

    Sandblast the frame with 60 mesh sand. Available at Home Depoty type places. Use Krylon primer and the above bondo step. More krylon primer. Auto Air Colors or Krylon. Krylon clear.

    With some careful spraying this will almost be as good as the auto paint version. Total cost; less than $100. (depends on the colors you use. I just saw an AWSOME pearl that runs $110.00 for 4 little onces!)

    DOWNSIDE?...with a spray-can paint job, you should wait 2-6 months before putting the bike together.
    WHAAAT?!?!?
    YES, unless you want your front deraileur to become one with the frame, etc. The paint may be dry to the touch, but it will remain soft for quite a while.

    Hope that helps.
    Good Luck & Happy Spraying,
    Dr. D

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Diego, California
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Apple Krate, Trek 7500, Three speed Fair Lady, Western Auto Buzz Bike, Univega mountain bike
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Dr Deltron:

    Come on over to "Bike Mechanics" where I'll feel more comfortable asking paint questions. I've been in the wrong thread too long. Thank you all so far for all your imput !

    I enjoy going to the marketplace and seeing how much I can do without. Aristotle

  18. #18
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Austin
    My Bikes
    Too many to count
    Posts
    2,070
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind8
    Try the search function (http://www.bikeforums.net/search.php?). This has been discussed many times. I am sure you can find some good advice that way. Also, you might want to consider powercoating instead of painting the frame.

    Good luck!


    Geez! What a dikhead response.

  19. #19
    holyrollin' FlatTop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    L.B.N.J.U.S.A.
    My Bikes
    Schwinn Racer(hot rod 3 sp.), noname cantilever frame 1 sp., Peugeot U-O8, Kia 10 sp., soon-to-be-custom Sears Free Spirit 3sp.(project), department store mountain bike 21 sp.
    Posts
    1,323
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman
    Geez! What a dikhead response.
    I doubt it. Paint is too complicated a subject to cover everything about it in one thread. There are about ten pages of posts on nothing but painting bikes.

    Nobody is trying to beat up the new guy. We're here to help.

    The best way to find out what you need to know is use the search function of the ENORMOUS Bikeforums archives. Then if you still need more info, you can make a really pointed question about what you need. It works.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •